Answering the lawyer and sedevacantist "Introibo" blogger

Under this post:

Introibo Ad Altare Dei : Covering Up The Obvious
https://introiboadaltaredei2.blogspot.com/2022/04/covering-up-obvious.html

Time signatures are copied from his blog's comment section and follow his time zone:

Hans Georg Lundahl

April 20, 2022 at 3:07 PM

What is your view of the idea, that marital age should be relowered to 14 / 12 (c. 50 % of each sex mature) as in most previous centuries, or at least to 16 / 14 (c. 95 %) as within 1917 code?

I mean, taking advantage of someone sexually mature is not technically speaking pedophilia, but taking advantage of is still evil and being taken advantage of is still bad for one.

A N D being forced by law to stay celibate for up to 6 years in most cases, and even more in rarer ones after you have your first sexual desires, is a kind of situation that opens up for grooming. Being instead married is a situation that makes one somewhat relatively speaking safer.

Obviously for it to work, one needs younger limits for going to work as well. If a boy of 14 marries a girl of 12 only when both have rich parents or are actors, it's too rare to really help.

Introibo Ad Altare Dei

April 20, 2022 at 4:49 PM

Hans,
I think with the immaturity of most under 18, it is a bad idea. Here in the U.S., the vast amount of young marriages end in divorce. Getting jobs to support a family is another problem. For MOST marriages to be successful in this country, you need to be in your mid-20s.

God Bless,

—Introibo

Hans Georg Lundahl

April 21, 2022 at 2:21 AM

Isn't part of the problem a culture that expects a long "adolescence" as the word is seen in cultural terms?

Isn't part of that problem a culture that expects education to go on into the midtwenties?

While I was a teacher at a school, I enjoyed eating with the guy or the gal of a couple who were in eighth grade, or with both of them. They were polite, and I was hoping they were getting stabilised (not marriage, but like engagement, preparing for marriage) earlier than most.

Now, he was into Hip Hop, she into Classical music and ballet, both were still in an educational system encouraging each to be simply himself or herself rather than "limit oneself" in order to adapt to the other. I was angry to learn that they had broken up a few months after I left.

You also say "in this country" - as I recall, you are in New York. Before Clinton, there used to be different state limits for marital age going down as young as 12.

Before I came to that school, in 94 or early 95, there was a story in a girls' magazine (I had figured that not wanting to remain a bachelor, and having exhausted the possible love interests in my surrounding, and having little time to socialise, I'd be better prepared to meet girls by reading those, than by reading the kind of publications labelled "for men"), and the story said, a girl of 12 had been able to quit school, by marrying an old man. She wasn't discontent with the arrangement, but Bill Clinton had a gut feeling of disgust with the perversion of it ... and he promised this would never happen again (like Milosevic had promised Serbs, they would never again be thrown stones at by Albanians, in Kosovo). Limits were raised to 16 for both sexes, nation wide.

And a third : how is your argument not an argument to raise the marital age even more, to 25? Which would mean even more teens driven to fornication, pre-marital motherhood at extreme best (btw, the failed marriages might be childless ones, right?), sexual exploration leading up to perversion, sexual self disgust leading up to sex change, depression leading up to suicide?

You cannot make a law of the ideal of every one obeying it getting "above average" chances. You cannot have 100 % or approaching above average, you can only have up to 50 % above and equally up to 50 % below average, depending on how many are exactly at average.

Introibo Ad Altare Dei

April 21, 2022 at 1:11 PM

Hans,
1. Yes, expecting a long "adolescence" is part of the problem but not likely to be resolved anytime soon. Part of the reason is the increased life expectancy. In 1917, at the time of the Code of Canon Law, life expectancy in the U.S. was 47. In 2021 it is 77. You "couldn't afford" to have a long "adolescence" so to speak. Here in NY (and almost all other states) to get a civil service job (cop, fireman, sanitation, teacher) requires a minimum age of 21. Hard to support yourself and a family as a clerk at a supermarket.

2. There is no Federal Marriage age. The states have always determined the age of marriage. 48 states have a minimum age of 18. Nebraska has a minimum age of 19, and Mississippi has a minimum age of 21. New York and six other states have an absolute prohibition on marriage between a minor and an adult. Minors can marry each other with parental consent or judicial decree. In all states the age never goes below the age of 15 with consent or decree, except for Massachusetts which has 12 as the minimum age—but there has been no so case of parent of judge allowing it below age 14 in that state.

Bill Clinton is a pervert and would not be "disgusted" by anything sexual. A good friend of Jeffery Epstein, he probably had a couple of 12 year olds—or younger. Despite attempts to link Trump to Epstein, trump never went on trips with Epstein—Clinton did.

3. As Aquinas taught, not every aspect of morality should be legislated. Hence, I would not advocate 25 as a marriage age by LAW but as COMMON SENSE. Some 18 year olds have successful marriages and most don't. I was a virgin until I married in my 40s. So please don't excuse sinful behavior as teens being "driven" to fornication. The adultery rates among those who marry early are high—were they "driven" to that too? Maybe an argument for polygamy?

God Bless,

—Introibo

2.

Hans Georg Lundahl

April 21, 2022 at 2:06 PM

1) "Hard to support yourself and a family as a clerk at a supermarket."

Minimum wages? I don't believe in federal ones, I believe in state by state ones, Alaska and Florida having different living expenses. But the point is, full time work should not be remunerated by wages too low to support children at least if your wife is also working.

2 "In all states the age never goes below the age of 15 with consent or decree, except for Massachusetts which has 12 as the minimum age—but there has been no so case of parent of judge allowing it below age 14 in that state."

In the case I read of, 12, SC.

3 "Some 18 year olds have successful marriages and most don't."

Is there a difference in favour of age disparity?

"I was a virgin until I married in my 40s."

I'm 53, unfortunately still both unmarried and virgin.

"The adultery rates among those who marry early are high—were they "driven" to that too?"

Was this not mostly the case among childless marriages? In that case an argument against having legal or easy to access contraceptives.

Here is about a mother who became so first time at 14:

DEVENIR MAMAN À L'ADOLESCENCE: un témoignage 🤰🏼 (questions/réponses)
16 avr. 2022 | AUDREY D.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ydLUefJfD98

Unfortunately she promotes both abortion and adoption as being as valid options for a teen pregnancy, but she took a better one, herself, and she is at 28 as far as I can see still with the father of her first child.

Introibo Ad Altare Dei

April 21, 2022 at 4:34 PM

Hans,

1."But the point is, full time work should not be remunerated by wages too low to support children at least if your wife is also working."

What you think SHOULD BE and WHAT IS THE CASE are two different things. That's not going to happen for many political reasons

2. "In the case I read of, 12, SC."

Hence, the term "fake news." IF true, it would be by a special bill passed by the South Carolina legislature and signed by the governor. How often will that happen?

3. "Is there a difference in favour of age disparity?" Yes, if an 18 year old woman marries a man ten years or more her senior. However, the difference is not that much better.

"I'm 53, unfortunately still both unmarried and virgin."

If you feel called to the married state and have not found someone, I can understand the disappointment of not being married. You should not feel unfortunate for having kept God's Law on no sex outside marriage. For that you should be rightfully proud.

"Was this not mostly the case among childless marriages? In that case an argument against having legal or easy to access contraceptives."

It was slightly higher among the childless—but NOT by much!

God Bless,

—Introibo

Hans Georg Lundahl

April 22, 2022 at 12:25 AM

"That's not going to happen for many political reasons"

Like Pope Pius XI being a nincompoop? Like Bernie being non-Catholic and pro-abortion?

The former is not how we speak about a true pope. The latter is accidental.

"Hence, the term "fake news." IF true, it would be by a special bill passed by the South Carolina legislature and signed by the governor. How often will that happen?"

My point is, back then it was legal in SC. It was Bill Clinton who raised it to at least 16 across the states, or tried to.

"Yes, if an 18 year old woman marries a man ten years or more her senior. However, the difference is not that much better."
"It was slightly higher among the childless—but NOT by much!"

This sounds marital statistics of the US are such that everyone is getting damned - unmarried because they mostly can't be chaste or can't without committing other sins, and married because they don't stay with spouses. So, if God requires of us to HOPE, this means we should feel some aloofness at least about those statistics.

"If you feel called to the married state and have not found someone, I can understand the disappointment of not being married."

I have found someone. I have not found conditions of for instance an income from my writings.

"You should not feel unfortunate for having kept God's Law on no sex outside marriage. For that you should be rightfully proud."

One can be proud and even so unfortunate. There is a cost. It was already years ago such, that I prayed to be either married or dead a year hence.

Introibo Ad Altare Dei

April 22, 2022 at 9:04 PM

Hans,
"Like Pope Pius XI being a nincompoop? Like Bernie being non-Catholic and pro-abortion?

The former is not how we speak about a true pope. The latter is accidental."

Like the fact the U.S. is founded on Masonic principles—of course including "separation of Church and State."

"My point is, back then it was legal in SC. It was Bill Clinton who raised it to at least 16 across the states, or tried to."

Read what I wrote—IT WAS NOT LEGAL. It was a one-time bill to allow ONE EXCEPTION. The parents must have had plenty of political juice—if the story is true.

"One can be proud and even so unfortunate. There is a cost. It was already years ago such, that I prayed to be either married or dead a year hence."

How sad you felt that way. Not a Catholic response. God may be calling you to the single vocation which is most noble. A prayer like that basically says, "Either give me what I want or take my life—my way or else." I hope and pray you do not pray that way or feel that way anymore.

God Bless,

—Introibo

Hans Georg Lundahl

April 23, 2022 at 4:51 AM

OK, here is one thing.

It is not for you to decide if the response is Catholic or not, and if you are praying for a celibate vocattion, go to Hell.

We are not in communion. Anyone who has prayed that for me has been my enemy over years, and if God has heard them, it is a trap, by which I have been disabled to pray correctly myself.

I prefer you going to Hell over myself going to Hell because of your blindness!

Introibo Ad Altare Dei

April 23, 2022 at 12:12 PM

Hans,
I can absolutely decide if a response is Catholic, just as I can decide that Bergoglio is not Catholic—all based on Catholic teaching.

Yes, we are not in communion because you follow a mental patient with delusions of grandeur as "Pope" Michael. I haven't seen your writings on your "pope's" website; why is that?

It is Catholic teaching that we must all conform ourselves to the Will of God, even when it's something we don't like. I pray for you to do the Will of God, WHATEVER THAT MAY BE. Very Catholic.

I have tolerated your comments and responded in charity for a long time—even as you follow a false pope as a Conclavist.

Wishing people to "go to Hell" (myself or others) is a total lack of Catholic charity and sinful if you truly wish their damnation.

Your comments are no longer welcome here and will no longer be published on this blog. I pray for your conversion—and mental health.

May God Save You,

—Introibo

Answered

but he might not publish it

"It is Catholic teaching that we must all conform ourselves to the Will of God, even when it's something we don't like. I pray for you to do the Will of God, WHATEVER THAT MAY BE. Very Catholic."

You forget a detail. God may have condemned me to the evil consequences of your prayers because I didn't speak up sooner.

You forget another detail. We are free to ask for deliverance from evils. It was Job's right to hope God would set things right.

You forget a third detail. The terms of my prayer were used by St. Elijah. III Kings 19:4. And no, this does not mean I have the delusion of grandeur to take myself for Elijah. It means I believe the saints are case law in relation to the commands expressed being common law. In other words, praying to die is not rebellion against God's will, is not suicidal, and is not blasphemy. There is such a thing as being oppressed so hard one cannot stand. Even if I am confusing Exodus with a negro spiritual.

You pretend Pope Michael has delusions of grandeur. If he is under no kind of forced or accepted under durance therapy, you are slandering. If not, he may be "Petrus in vinculis" and I owe him loyalty beyond his deeds. All the evils I mentioned about him, are yours too and more directly.

"Wishing people to "go to Hell" (myself or others) is a total lack of Catholic charity and sinful if you truly wish their damnation."

I said I prefer you going to Hell over going there myself over your blindness.

If you wish to save your soul, stop praying evil prayers whether about me or about Pope Michael.

If your priest wishes to save his soul, and his bishop too, same for them.

If they do not, and you still wish to save your sould, same for you again, plus take your distance from them as from evildoers.

This was published,

without previous being so:

Anonymous

April 30, 2022 at 9:50 PM

Great. I always thought that he's a weirdo.

More clarifications, less urgent than my distance from his bad praying, and not answered to him, but presented to readers here:

"Like the fact the U.S. is founded on Masonic principles—of course including 'separation of Church and State.'"

Evil as that is, this misses that:
a) we are not called to resign to the evils of a state we live in, in a final manner, the Church before Constantine was not saying "we must accept some of us aborting";
b) all the world is not US;
c) "que será, será, whatever will be will be" - what is the good in pretending "there is no more a Catholic astrology than Catholic abortion" if you are worshipping Apollo the Delphic (and Apollo has in Greek five cases the sum total of 2666) by making predictions.

"Read what I wrote—IT WAS NOT LEGAL. It was a one-time bill to allow ONE EXCEPTION. The parents must have had plenty of political juice—if the story is true."

I am not obliged to take Introibo's word for it. He is based in NYC, if I got it correct, and may not be well aware of what was legal prior to Clinton in SC. And it's not over the top improbable a new limit was set more recently than 1994. I mean, France raised the limit from 18 / 15 (as it had been since Napoleon, I think) to 18 / 18 as recently as under Chirac, 2006. I recall it well, if I hadn't read that news, I would have tried to get back to a young teen going fifteen that year, among a chiourme of manouche whom I had lived among for a week or two the year before.

Also, he seems to feel shame at the suggestion - forgetting it was the Anticlerical Italy that oppressed the Papal States that turned the limit from 14 / 12 to 18 / 18, like Communist Tyrant Lenin (even more evil than Cavour) turned it from 15 / 13 to 18 / 18. This suggests he might make a white lie or if not be lying to himself, and if not that have been lied to about what was legal elsewhere, supposing his memory really goes as far back as 1994 in legal matters.

me : "I have not found conditions of for instance an income from my writings."
he : "I haven't seen your writings on your "pope's" website; why is that?"

For one thing, he has also found no condemnation of them.

And for another, a Catholic essayist does not have to appear on the website of the Vatican to be a Catholic essayist. Bergoglio's occupied Vatican is not publishing mirrors of Mark Shea's either books or blog posts, nor those of Jimmy Akin. FSSPX is not mirroring the book Ipsa Conteret by Heinz-Lothar Barth.

earlier : "Bill Clinton is a pervert and would not be "disgusted" by anything sexual."

I take it, the really uncurable homosexuals are not so for strong attraction to own sex, but for strong disgust at sexuality promoting reproduction. Therefore, the implication is a non-sequitur. Also "be disgusted" can be used for "expressing disgust" which can be done hypocritically.

"I was a virgin until I married in my 40s. So please don't excuse sinful behavior as teens being "driven" to fornication. The adultery rates among those who marry early are high—were they "driven" to that too? Maybe an argument for polygamy?"

Non omnia possumus omnes. I was not excusing, nor not excusing. I was warning of consequences.

All are not long suffering virgin myself, all are not proud virgin till married at 40 Introibo, and the Apostle says:

[1 Timothy 4:1] Now the Spirit manifestly saith, that in the last times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to spirits of error, and doctrines of devils, [2] Speaking lies in hypocrisy, and having their conscience seared, [3] Forbidding to marry, to abstain from meats, which God hath created to be received with thanksgiving by the faithful, and by them that have known the truth.

[1 Corinthians 7:2] But for fear of fornication, let every man have his own wife, and let every woman have her own husband.

See, the Apostle maintains the same warning. For those citing he also said he that does not marry off his daughter does better, for one thing he still says he who marries her off does well, and for another, that is in the context of virgin vocations. Something that modern schools and co-education make rarer.

Other thread, under same post, where he left me the last word:

Anonymous

April 20, 2022 at 6:56 PM

Doesn't the Holy Bible state homosexuality being a punishment for Apostasy+ Idolatry?
-Andrew

Hans Georg Lundahl

April 21, 2022 at 2:25 AM

My thoughts exactly, after a certain idea, preliminarily not dis-promoted by Pius XII, namely Adam having non-human direct ancestry in the immediately previous generation, objectively involving God committing heavy child abuse on Adam by raising him as a feral child or getting around it in other non-ideal ways, undeserved before he had sinned, why would God not deliver such guys who believe that up to a homosexuality involving precisely child abuse?

Since then, lots have turned over to more "classic" homosexuality, as the apostasy has shifted to saying Adam's parents weren't totally non-human, as Jimmy Akin would arguably argue : this meaning simply that Adam was not the first man, and his position couldn't reasonably be such as to give all of mankind miseries for a sin of someone basically just a nominal figurehead.

Introibo Ad Altare Dei

April 21, 2022 at 1:24 PM

Andrew,
According to theologian Haydock, God withdrew His Grace from those who did not recognize Him from creation and worshipped idols. [An idol is anything we exalt above the True God. The First Commandment does not say, "Thou shalt not be an atheist," but rather, "Thou shalt not have strange gods before me." Drugs, money, sex, are all substitute "gods" for many].

(See "Catholic Commentary on the New Testament" pg. 1479).

God Bless,

—Introibo

Hans Georg Lundahl

April 21, 2022 at 2:29 PM

"anything we exalt above the True God."

Including a false image of God.

Above was referred to

under a video by E. Michael Jones, who deleted it./HGL, 25.IV.2022

Added under first thread, 27.IV.2022:

It so happens, your way of marginalising me as Catholic and media provider is allowing others to actively martyrise me. It seems your colours of pastoral to me are purple (telling me to make penance) and scarlet (celebrating my martyrdom). No green, no white - and obviously no black for my suffering either.

Here is a nice little leopard head for you to ride on ... David Chord

Added, as possible new thread, 30.IV.2022:

Recall my words, including those you did not publish?

24.IV I published on my blog, 26.IV, bishop Dolan died unexpectedly.

Update, 2.I.2024:

"Pourtant, près de 300 000 mariages d’enfants ont été célébrés dans le pays entre 2000 et 2018. Plus de 80% étaient des filles, la plus jeune avait 10 ans, les maris étaient le plus souvent des adultes. Aux États-Unis, des mineures peuvent encore être mariées dans 40 États, soit les 4/5e du pays. Cinq états ne fixent même aucune limite d’âge, dont la Californie."

C. 300 000 "child marriages" between 2000 and 2018, 80 % of the minors (better term) are girls, of which the youngest was 10 years, the husbands were more often adults (or major, i e above 18 or 21). It's legal in 40 states, and 5 of them even fix no age at all, whereof California.

Introibo simply lied, or was obtuse, perhaps voluntarily./HGL

Sources for the citation:

États-Unis : ce pays qui marie ses enfants | ARTE Reportage
ARTE | 11 déc. 2023
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YsR0SGChN2Q

Which I cite on:
Répliques Assorties : Notons, si en 1970 les filles qui sortaient du lycée avec un bac américain étaient vierges, pas mal étaient déjà mariées ayant quitté le lycée sans bac ... https://repliquesassorties.blogspot.com/2023/12/notons-si-en-1970-les-filles-qui.html

No, my memory was good, Introibo was ignorant or dishonest./HGL