New blog on the kid: September 2023

Saturday 30 September 2023

So, Angry Atheists Who Were Not Raised As Believers ?

Angry Atheists ... · So, Angry Atheists Who Were Not Raised As Believers ?

Just to start off a comparison, all five raised as some kind of believers, I would say Genetically Modified Sceptic and Paulogia and Kristi Burke, all of whom are Exvangelicals, are far less angry or toxic than Dan Browne or Richard Dawkins, who are both ex-Anglicans.

But surely, no one would consider weak Anglicanism to have more indoctrinated Dan Brown and Richard Dawkins in Bible Truth and Hell Fire than strong Evangelicalism was doing with GMS, KB and Paul?

So, some are even in Sweden, third or fourth generation total unbelievers, far angrier than the Exvangelicals cited.

So, no, it cannot be from the perspective "I'm angry because I was personally traumatised by Christianity" ...

In some cases, there is a kind of family tradition. Magic Sceptic is angry because his own father in his youth was traumatised by Christian Brethren. In some cases in Sweden (or comparable societies, England, Netherlands, North Germany, the rest of the Nordic countries) one grandparent can have been among the ones remaining raised as Christians and that one grandparent can have been traumatised.

But I think, in a lot of cases, sth worse is going on.

A Frenchman was profiting from a girl who went to some kind of therapy, and he could not marry her, because he was already married. So, when she becomes a Christian and is set free and no longer goes to therapy and no longer bonds with him, he is angry. He seems to have been one of the guys behind the misfortunes of Torben Søndergaard in Denmark and who also contacted the ICE authorities in the US, even before he got there. Apart from no longer getting his pleasures from her, he pretends concerned, perhaps honestly (though irrationally) is concerned that her leaving the therapy would have seriously hurt her.

How many other people are angry because Christianity lost themselves power and influence over someone they liked and also liked to manipulate, is a matter on which one can only speculate.

There are other case types.

Someone has had an abortion or a sex change. They will know how Christianity condemns this, so, even some openness to the idea of the supernatural could never reconcile them to the terms of Christianity. They can take Tarot cards or Atheism, or both, but not Christianity. They can take reincarnation or Atheism (hardly both), not Christianity. They can take reiki or homeopathy or standard medicine, but would be the first to denounce faith healers or ridiculise Lourdes.

The last line in my description of them is a cue for medical professionals. Some of them may have seen real cases, many more of them have heard of real and imagined cases in which reliance on a faith healer not just left someone as ill as before, but left him disappointed when there was no improvement, or allowed the disease to fester worse because of delays in seeking out real professionals. Some of these men have an equal dislike for homeopathy and for Christianity.

Some in the case of med professionals, pharmaceutical professionals, computer professionals, whether IT or IA, hold a solid contempt for the past. Mark Robidou was sure Medieval Europe had to have cholera, because the streets were dirty. His area of expertise is, surprise, surprise, not history, least of all Medieval history. He's into IT. Each of these is aware he's on some or even all levels using techniques that were not around in the Middle Ages or the Late Antiquity or the Bronze Age. If this inspires a contempt for these periods, and it often does, this can reflect on things inherited from such periods, like the Christian religion, very notably. As a matter of fact, cholera didn't get close to Europe before the colonial times, an epidemic starting in Bombay in 1817.

In a similar but not quite identic position, there are people who got rich by putting people on assembly lines, paying them perhaps more than they were payed before, if they were ruined farmers or if they were farm hands, but a smaller part of the total gain than previously craftsmen would be paying their journeymen, or they became rich by new banking schemes, including obviously taking of interest, or by outcompeting small competitors thanks to making temporary losses offset by bankloans, and then making the profits by raising their prizes, when the competitor is down. Such people, about 100 - 150 years ago were conscious of building a new world, were conscious that it was unlike the world dominated by Christianity, and got the idea (perhaps very shrewd) that it could be even more their own world if they got rid of Christian influence. Who recalls what role Andrew Carnegie and Carnegie Foundation for the Advancement of Teaching played in pushing Evolution into US schools?

Now, some of these were raised as believers, but this does not necessarily mean they came to show themselves as "traumatised exbelievers" - some might have been, but that class I am talking of in that time was not one for doing psychoanalysis before all of the world or even at all. In many cases, they did not opt for eradicating Christian belief, and in many cases that was because they were dealing with Protestants in a mainly Protestant culture — Protestantism being all about the pliability of Christianity. And Protestantism being since the beginning, historically, very much less supranaturalist in outlook than Catholicism.

Let's recall, in some of these cases, the people who would now hate the guts of Fundie Evangelicals were back then hating Catholicism. This was part of why the Spanish-American War started, the one in which Spain lost Cuba, Guam and the Philippines. Puerto Rico as well, if I recall correctly. This is also one reason to be less pessimistic about the salvation of Fundie Evangelicals than a Feeneyist reading of Gregory XVI would warrant — that Pope was considering the case of not very supranaturalist and sometimes unduly pro-slavery and racist Protestants. Also, in the 1830's, the community most prominent in clerical pederasty were the Anglicans. But anyone who in the 19th C. was pushing "Genesis is part of our holy Scriptures, but it is unreliable" would have been a non-Catholic back then, and the ones who weren't pushing that, were pushing other liberties of the type that Fundamentalists tend to deplore. A journalist recently made a case for modern Fundies being very alien to historic Protestantism. I agree. They would have often enough a lot of cultural issues with Catholicism, even in some cases to the point of very hateful animosity, but they are even so closer to Catholicism. That's the reason why, having gone from Evangelical to Lutheran for historic reasons, and because I began to feel uncomfy with some Pentecostal worship music in my early teens, I then went on from Lutheran to Catholic, when I saw how much Lutherans were open to liberal theology, and how much the Deformation* itself was actually a secularising influence, chasing God out of society.

These guys have the opposite priority. They hate Christianity the more it brings God back into society or threatens to do so. Being a teacher of Earth Sciences often involves you being an Evolutionist, and no, this does not mean a specialist in Evolutionary Biology, it means a believer in the Neo-Darwinian synthesis of Evolution theory with associated theories in other fields than biological evolution (abiogenesis, gradual humanisation, man being no composite of spiritual and material, but simply material and everything "spiritual" either an illusion or an epiphenomenon of matter. So, it does come with a certain doctrinal opposition to Christianity. But some are also tempted by its position of power — which would be threatened if Christianity was more accepted than Evolutionism, on the societal level.

Similar observations can be made for those who do not exactly themselves suffer from unwanted pregnancies or gender dysphoria or same sex attraction, but who are instead catering to those categories, like service providers or mental health specialists or members of advocacy groups. They have a power position they would not like to lose.

Hans Georg Lundahl
Paris
St. Jerome
30.IX.2023

In Bethlehem Judeae depositio sancti Hieronymi Presbyteri, Confessoris et Ecclesiae Doctoris, qui, omnium studia litterarum adeptus ac probatorum Monachorum imitator factus, multa haeresum monstra gladio suae doctrinae confodit; demum, cum ad decrepitam usque vixisset aetatem, in pace quievit, sepultusque est ad Praesepe Domini. Ejus corpus, postea Romam delatum, in Basilica sanctae Mariae Majoris conditum fuit.

* This word is usually misspelled with an R at the beginning.

Production September 2023

Production September 2023
Back to Previous		On to Next

Production August 2023		Production October 2023

1.IX.2023: Adoption - Sharing · I'd Like a Second Opinion on the Kaph
2.IX.2023: Where Does Ecumenism Lead on from Porvoo? · Tolkien Died Fifty Years Ago · Ages or Names Symbolic?
3.IX.2023: Sharing : Christianity is True, Islam is Not · En Suède, ce n'est pas que la gauche ... (FR)
4.IX.2023: Some Observations and Can We Agree Pre-Adamites is Not a Christian Idea? · Father Hartmann Grisar, S. J. · 3 + or 4 : Gm, Ba, Sl, PQ or NM · 2 : Ba, Sl · 5 + 2 : It, Gm, He, Ir, In + Alb. + Toch · 4 : Gm, He, Ir, In · Seven Generations Women, Age at First Marriage · Emprunt mélodique ?
5.IX.2023: A Catholic Challenges an Orthodox : Who's Most YEC? · Pas avec des singeries, débat avec Laurent Dupont (FR) · Age at first marriage and at death - a few more
6.IX.2023: Précisons (FR)
7.IX.2023: Signé - signez-vous aussi, s v p ! (FR)
8.IX.2023: Bonum Festum Nativitatis Beatae Virginis Mariae (LAT) · Barnes and Haydock Have a Thing or Two in Common
9.IX.2023: -
10.IX.2023: "Concordism" - a Pointless Concept in France and Madagascar
11.IX.2023: -
12.IX.2023: Coalescence entre l'Antichrist et le Faux Prophète ? (FR) · statistiques de deux semaines (FR) · Jour, semaine, mois, à partir du 15.VIII (FR) · Quora Too?
13.IX.2023: Are Some Muslims Banding Up to Stamp Me as Mentally Ill? · Can Someone Contribute With No Formal Training on the Subject? · Presentation · Sharing on Rejection of Apparent Popes Apparently Heretical · Names in Narnia - Sharing Video AND Some Concerns in Comments · The Magic Sceptic Tried to Debunk 5 Proofs for the Resurrection (First Half of the Video and Some More)
14.IX.2023: Bonum Festum Exaltationis sanctae Crucis (LAT) · Malentendus ou pire ? (FR) · Gavin Ortlund tries to pit St. Augustine against Answers in Genesis · Before Watching the Clip · When watching the clip · Flood vs Dudley · Radiocarbon and Tree Rings with Ken Wolgemuth · Geocentrism Defended Against FrJerome Zeiler · Geocentrism vs "Simon Skinner" · Waiting for the Messiah, Acc. to the Catechisms
15.IX.2023: -
16.IX.2023: Je n'allais pas répondre avant de vérifier avec Anne-Noëlle Clément (FR)
17.IX.2023: Finance World / Antichrist ? · On Music, Liturgic and Popular
18.IX.2023: Le Moyen Âge en Allemagne, Scandinavie et les Îles Britanniques ... (FR) · Paper formats (A4 system) · L'inacceptable, c'est l'obligation scolaire (FR) · Angels chosing orbits = no violation of laws of physics ? · Puisqu'on vient de me taxer de menteur ... (FR)
19.IX.2023: Est-ce vrai pour les Allemagnes du Sud aussi ? (FR)
20.IX.2023: Monsignor Schneider, was the canon law Decree of Gratian Magisterium ? · What is "my mother told me" really about ? · Sharing ... · Sharing a Warning · Metatron Made Some Mistakes in His Video on Historic Truth being Objective · First Half of a Video by Kristi Burke · Resistance and Obedience
21.IX.2023: Bonum Festum Sancti Matthaei Apostoli (LAT) · Graham Hancock Commented on When Mega-Fauna Died · Maiorianus on Europe 700 AD · Contra Lofton Misdefining Luther to Blacken Trad Catholics with Him · Contra Calvin · Archibald Sayce was no Church Father, Reverend Bandas was not Pope · With Ken Wolgemuth on Carbon Dating and its Calibration · Human Sacrifice is Attributed to Certain Sects · Ariane Lavrilleux 40 heures en garde à vue (FR)
22.IX.2023: Club 21 and Top of the Blogs (over a Year) · Can One Celebrate Hobbit Day by Reflexions on Harry Potter?
23.IX.2023: Kevin Responded - On Something Else ... · Debate with Skabedab · In honour of Tolkien Week · Art Dorety refused to debate a Creationist linking to his own material, because he was linking to a Creationist's material ... a Creationist who had presumably duped him ... self ... (I know, bc the Creationist is Myself)
24.IX.2023: This Year, Our Lady of Mercy Falls on a Lord's Day · Other exchanges under same video · Neither Gay, Nor Gay Friendly · Angry Atheists ... · Birthrates
25.IX.2023: "Radio-Paris ment, Radio-Paris ment" (FR) · Not So Far Away, Not So Big · I Look at the Middle Ages with Chestertonic Eyes ... · Rant · "no al proselitismo" = proselitismo al no (ESP)
26.IX.2023: Sharing · And "MedievalMadness" can't persuade me otherwise
27.IX.2023: Other on Kevin Gillikin's First Video with Rev. Rudolph Bandas · "A long time ago in a galaxy far, far away...."
28.IX.2023: Heschmeyer Refutes "Trail of Blood" · Tomasello Not Answering · Stefan Speck machte einen Bock in der Nordischen Sprachwissenschaft (DE) · I don't think it's paranoia to think, some like to spread an idea, I am mad · Meilleurs voeux à Guillaume de Thieulloy et à l'abbé Pagès ! (FR) · Selvudråbt Reformator? (DA) · Defending and Explaining St. Thomas to some Orthodox · Mehr Censur (DE)
29.IX.2023: Bonum Festum Sancti Michael Archangelis
30.IX.2023: So, Angry Atheists Who Were Not Raised As Believers ? · Continuing with Kristi Burke · Production September 2023

Friday 29 September 2023

Bonum Festum Sancti Michael Archangelis

Christifidelibus lectoribus exopto./HGL

In monte Gargano venerabilis memoria beati Michaelis Archangeli, quando ipsius nomine ibi consecrata fuit Ecclesia, vili quidem facta schemate, sed caelesti praestans virtute.

Thursday 28 September 2023

Meilleurs voeux à Guillaume de Thieulloy et à l'abbé Pagès !

Voici le mail reçu:

Chers amis,

Je quitte le tribunal et je vous annonce très rapidement une bonne nouvelle : nous venons d’obtenir une petite victoire.

Pas une victoire décisive mais une première étape.

Contre l’avis du procureur, le tribunal nous a accordé la possibilité de préparer notre défense plus longuement (de façon assez inhabituelle… et assez inique, l’audience avait été fixée très rapidement après l’instruction nous obligeant à une préparation expresse).

Je vous en dirai plus aussi vite que possible. En attendant, une autre bonne nouvelle : j’ai appris cet après-midi, pendant l’audience, que nos amis du monde entier prolongeaient leur offre de doublement de tous nos dons (et de doublement des dons mensuels pendant une année complète) jusqu’à minuit.

N’hésitez pas à en profiter dans les prochaines heures !

Fidèlement

Guillaume de Thieulloy

I don't think it's paranoia to think, some like to spread an idea, I am mad

Yesterday, when I came to where I have my luggage, I was met with cold coffee and a denial when I went back to ask for replacing it with hot coffee.

When after food and coffee I went to the laundry, someone had placed a book "on the verge of madness" so I could pick it up.

In the laundry, someone had conspicuously placed Don Quijote.

Today, someone recycled an old canard which Swedes trying that kind of move were pushing a few years ago (though they seem to have ceased), namely, apparently I'm confusing Swedish with Danish (because I am using an older version of the Swedish spelling with some "orthographemes" coinciding with what Danish has kept).

Here is the discussion, for anyone who speaks German and ideally also Swedish:

Antworten nach Sorte : Stefan Speck machte einen Bock in der Nordischen Sprachwissenschaft
https://antw-n-sorte.blogspot.com/2023/09/stefan-speck-machte-einen-bock-in-der.html

Let's note, Stefan Speck is not a hack ... but he made a very rash assumption, and some other guys have done the same./HGL

Wednesday 27 September 2023

"A long time ago in a galaxy far, far away...."

it says something happened much longer time ago than the Bible says
it says there are galaxies
it says some objects are very very far away, that's part of how they come to "long time ago" (through the speed of light)
AND it's science fiction.

Tuesday 26 September 2023

Sharing

The end times Prophecy found in YOM KIPPUR - Dr. Erez Soref - Pod for Israel
ONE FOR ISRAEL Ministry, 29 Sept. 2022
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y7vu-st59e8

Monday 25 September 2023

Not So Far Away, Not So Big

New blog on the kid: Not So Far Away, Not So Big · "A long time ago in a galaxy far, far away...." · How do we know stellar distances? · But Angels Don't Move Planets, They Are Guardian Angels! · HGL'S F.B. WRITINGS: Cosmic "Banana" vs Distant Star Light Problem

Mysterious 'fossilized' bubble 10,000 times the size of the Milky Way could be a relic from the Big Bang
By Ben Turner published 3 days ago (22.IX.2023)
https://www.livescience.com/space/astronomy/mysterious-fossilized-bubble-10000-times-the-size-of-the-milky-way-could-be-a-relic-from-the-big-bang

A mysterious structure nearly 1 billion light-years across has been found in our cosmic neighborhood, and it could be a relic from the Big Bang.

The structure, consisting of a group of galaxies clustered around a gigantic spherical void just 820 million light years from the Milky Way, has been named Ho'oleilana, a name inspired by the Hawaiian creation chant, Kumulipo.

There was no Big Bang.

If the shell of fix stars is 1 light day up, this means that the thing is much closer, and given that the estimation of size is fro apparent size and distance, also much smaller.

820 000 000 * 365 = 299 300 000 000 light days instead of 1, this becomes the reduction factor
1 000 000 000 * 365 = 365 000 000 000 light days

365 000 000 000 / 299 300 000 000 = 1.219 512 195 122 light days

This means, an object "up in the sky" which is about as large as the radius of the universe ... a bit smaller if instead of being a disc tangential to the curvature of the sphere of the fix stars it "embraces" the sphere of the fix stars. Which would make sense.

However, it is not exacly an object - which explains why we haven't spotted it, if it is so big, earlier than now.

It is a void — "spotted" by "measuring" the supposed distances to objects around it. A k a a mirage.

Hans Georg Lundahl
Paris
St. Principius of Soissons
25.IX.2023

Eodem die sancti Principii, qui fuit Episcopus Suessionensis et frater beati Remigii Episcopi.

"Radio-Paris ment, Radio-Paris ment"

Je ne sais pas si on devrait ajouter ou plutot pas "Radio-Paris est allemand" ... par contre, les communications de Paris, de le ville de Paris, contiennent un mensonge. Meurtre, plus précisément un meurtre sur les fétus dans certaines formes, serait un "droit fondamental" — non, le meurtre n'est pas un droit./HGL

Sunday 24 September 2023

This Year, Our Lady of Mercy Falls on a Lord's Day

More precisely, the seventeenth Lord's Day after Pentecost.

Robert E. Ritchie sent me a letter reminding me of the feast, nice of him, it's not totally useless to subscribe to America Needs Fatima, or Return to Order or to Tradition, Family Property. However, he invited me to join in a certain prayer, which I cannot touch.

Here is my reply to him:

I will arguably pray, but not with you.

"On this feast day, please join me in praying a Hail Mary for all those enslaved to sin, addiction, mental illness or any one of Satan’s shackles so prevalent today."

Some people are more enslaved to actual slavehunt because they are taken as addicts or mentally ill, than they are, if at all, enslaved to such things or to sin.

Jesus came to set us free from sin, and we pray for people to be delivered from original and mortal sin every single day.

Today's feast is for praying against a specific social institution known as slavery, especially when the enslaved or the ones targetted for upcoming enslavement are Christians and their captors or wannabe captors aren't.

Hans Georg Lundahl

Our Lady of Mercy, pray for us!
Gilbert Keith Chesterton, pray for us!

Birthrates

Here are some of them:

The current birth rate for Nigeria in 2023 is 36.026 births per 1000 people, a 1.14% decline from 2022.		The birth rate for France in 2021 was 11.042 births per 1000 people, a 0.59% decline from 2020. The birth rate for France in 2020 was 11.107 births per 1000 ...
The current birth rate for Pakistan in 2023 is 26.042 births per 1000 people, a 1.87% decline from 2022. · The birth rate for Pakistan in 2022 was 26.538 births ...		The current birth rate for Germany in 2023 is 9.373 births per 1000 people, a 0.09% decline from 2022.
The current birth rate for Argentina in 2023 is 16.172 births per 1000 people, a 1.15% decline from 2022. · The birth rate for Argentina in 2022 was 16.360 ...		The current birth rate for Poland in 2023 is 9.154 births per 1000 people, a 1.55% decline from 2022. · The birth rate for Poland in 2022 was 9.298 births per ...
The current birth rate for Turkey in 2023 is 14.894 births per 1000 people, a 1.7% decline from 2022. · The birth rate for Turkey in 2022 was 15.151 births per ...		The current birth rate for Singapore in 2023 is 8.336 births per 1000 people, a 0.99% decline from 2022.
The current birth rate for Brazil in 2023 is 12.806 births per 1000 people, a 1.94% decline from 2022. · The birth rate for Brazil in 2022 was 13.059 births per ...		The current birth rate for Croatia in 2023 is 8.317 births per 1000 people, a 1.46% decline from 2022. · The birth rate for Croatia in 2022 was 8.440 births per ...
The current birth rate for U.S. in 2023 is 12.023 births per 1000 people, a 0.09% increase from 2022. The birth rate for U.S. in 2022 was 12.012 births per 1000 people, a 0.09% increase from 2021. The birth rate for U.S. in 2021 was 12.001 births per 1000 people, a 0.09% increase from 2020.		The current birth rate for Spain in 2023 is 7.889 births per 1000 people, a 1.56% decline from 2022. · The birth rate for Spain in 2022 was 8.014 births per 1000 ...
The birth rate for Russia in 2022 was 11.617 births per 1000 people, a 2.42% decline from 2021. The birth rate for Russia in 2021 was 11.905 births per 1000 people, a 2.37% decline from 2020. The birth rate for Russia in 2020 was 12.194 births per 1000 people, a 2.31% decline from 2019.

I came across the idea of higher birthrates, no growing population, therefore much higher child mortality in pre-modern times.

The historical studies of child mortality don’t provide a full picture of our ancestors' past. They are snapshots of some moments in the long history of our species. Could they mislead us to believe that mortality rates were higher than they actually were?

There is another piece of evidence to consider that suggests the mortality of children was in fact very high: birth rates were high, but population growth was close to zero.

If every couple has on average four children, the population size would double each generation. But while we know that couples had on average many more children than four, the population did not double with each generation.9 In fact population sizes barely changed at all.

https://ourworldindata.org/child-mortality-in-the-past

This is argued by footnote 9, which says:

We discuss this in more detail here and also in the first footnote of this article. From 10,000 BCE to 1700 the world population grew by only 0.04% annually..

Well, here we are already skewing the time frame. Carbon dated "10 000 BC" is 2621 BC according to my table* from Flood to Babel:

2957 B. Chr.: 0.012788 pmC/100, so dated as 38 957 B. Chr.
2621 B. Chr.: 0.406138 pmC/100, so dated as 10 071 B. Chr.
2607 B. Chr.: 0.428224 pmC/100, so dated as 9607 B. Chr.

Add to that, that since time spans were drawn out back in 2621 BC, like 14 years drawn out to 464 years, deaths that really were closer in time would appear less dense in time, giving the impression of a less densely populated "10 000 BCE" - though that works out the other way.

464 / 14 = carbon dated deaths 33 times as drawn out as in real life, back then.
(2023 + 10 000) / (2023 + 2621) = 2.589 times as drawn out in overall time, since then.

This means, the growth rate could actually have been even slower than thought.

But that is overall. Going to Europe, we can look at some statistics presented as "before 1790" ...

This table shows fertility rates in Europe before 1790. Back then one woman gave on average birth to 4.5 to 6.2 children. The population of a society does not increase when every woman is replaced on average by two children. As the tables presents fertility rates when the population in these countries did not yet grow rapidly we can infer that on average 2.5 to 4.2 children died per woman.

https://ourworldindata.org/fertility-rate#total-fertility-rate-around-the-world-over-the-last-two-centuries

And the source of these statistics is less reasoned in detail, just referenced, note 5,

All of this data is taken from Gregory Clark (2007) – A Farewell to Alms: A Brief Economic History of the World. Princeton University Press. Clark’s sources by country are: Belgium – Flinn, 1981 France – Flinn, 1981 and Weir 1984 Germany – Flinn, 1981 England – Flinn, 1981 Netherlands – De Vries, 1985, 665. Scandinavia – Flinn, 1981

https://ourworldindata.org/fertility-rate#note-5

I cannot even find the title of Flinn, 1981 ... wait, yes, I can:

M. W. Flinn, The European demographic system 1500–1820, Brighton, Harvester Press, 1981, 8vo, pp. xi, 175, £15.95.
Published online by Cambridge University Press: 16 August 2012
https://www.cambridge.org/core/journals/medical-history/article/m-w-flinn-the-european-demographic-system-15001820-brighton-harvester-press-1981-8vo-pp-xi-175-1595/34A7609E76CBDC52D72FDBD2D841D6F3

Now, the reason I quibble is, I get a very different result, both for percentage never married and for number of children per woman in fertile age (including zero usually for nuns and otherwise never married). Where so? Well European High Aristocracy of the Middle Ages.

Seven Generations Women, Age at First Marriage · Age at first marriage and at death - a few more

PPS - for fertility rate: 201 to 210 children on 80 to 82 women (the 55 + 25 to 27 nuns and otherwise unmarried, not dying young).

2.451 - 2.625 children per woman./HGL

Why are low fertility rates and birth rates a bad thing?Hear Ricky, here:**

Social Security 15:36 or pensions or other retirement plans are kind of a pyramid scheme now that kind of has a negative 15:42 connotation it's probably the most beloved pyramid scheme of all time but that's kind of what it is 15:46 the average Social Security payment in the US is $171 which means for a retired couple that's 15:53 $3,400 the average salary in the US is around 55,000 now 12.4 4% of your paycheck goes to 16:00 Social Security but you only pay half that your employer pays the other half that means that if 16:05 the average American is making $4,600 a month at 12% that's $574 per worker you would need nearly 16:14 six workers to pay for one retired couple or three workers to pay for a single retiree with a healthy 16:20 perent of more younger people than old that's doable and we've Managed IT for all this time 16:25 but what happens when we stop having babies and there are no longer people working to pay for that 16:30 this system would fundamentally collapse in fact the Social Security program is expected to run 16:35 short of cash in 2033 while a key trust fund for Medicare will run out of funds by 2031 assuming 16:43 no hardcore policy changes then a shrinking and aging population means fewer people will pay taxes 16:48 more people will be on long-term care there will be higher pressure on all nation's Health Care 16:52 Systems there'll be a reduction in the workforce in countries like the United States Germany and 16:56 China will have to rely on immigration to recover jobs to keep their economies aoat consequently 17:01 labor demand will go unmet and when that happens everything starts to fall apart however it's 17:06 more than likely that countries will make strong policy changes that will affect you and me some

While I agree, at least in the short run immigration is a palliative, I would say countries have a good interest in getting self sufficient in children.

Anyway, one thing that's sure is, he agrees that the prognosis of Ehrlich is by now falsified. People need to start making babies again. And governments trying to squeeze out more work of each will only be likely to aggravate the shortage in bed time (four feet style) and babies made.

Banning abortions, and making life easier for the people who are then likelier to form couples is a real path.

Hans Georg Lundahl
Paris
XVII Lord's Day After Pentecost
24.IX.2023

PS, unfortunately, he is himself in a sense disincentivising children, if he has his way, in making incentives to only higher incomes to have them. You have a couple with one and a half earnings of minimum wage — or worse, but that should not stop you from having children./HGL

* Table I-II in New Tables
http://creavsevolu.blogspot.com/2020/08/new-tables.html
** Quoting a transscript of:
The World Population Crisis NO ONE Sees Coming
Two Bit da Vinci, 9 Sept. 2023
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tk5KoWUwz6Q

Angry Atheists ...

Angry Atheists ... · So, Angry Atheists Who Were Not Raised As Believers ?

On a FB wall by a man who was into Emma Thorne's interview with Tim Mills, I found a meme complaining - in the name of an "average" atheist of having been brainwashed as a child.

I am a Swede.

I am 55. My maternal grandparents were non-believers, born respectively 1900 and 1911.

My situation in this respect is far from unique, though the paternal side of the grandparents were more believing - at least the female half.

I have seen Swedes very angrily diss Christianity and when I asked "why do you diss your ancestors" they will claim none of theirs were believers.

Which is nonsense, but shows that there is at least a few generations since the last believer in their own lineage.

If Feli from Germany and her brother are unbelievers, they were not the first generation, so were her parents.

So, no, I don't think the idea of having been deluded when one was a child is what is really bothering them about Christianity. In many places of the world, the average atheist, including the average angry atheist, simply is not an ex-believer of Christianity.

I have seen Emma Thorne complain with very much less anger, very much more grace, about having been raised with conspiracy theories about chem trails.

And I have above all seen lots of Swedish atheist much angrier without that reason. Something else is going on, and it could be ultimately and even nearly immediately demonic./HGL

Friday 22 September 2023

Can One Celebrate Hobbit Day by Reflexions on Harry Potter?

1937, The Hobbit was published.
1987, Tom Felton was born.

I actually saw a video about Harry Potter this morning, or more than one, one on the cast "then and now" and that's how I know about Tom Felton, and one about Draco Malfoy among them. Also, one about the cast just back then, and it seems that offstage Tom Felton was as much a friend of Daniel Radcliffe as Draco Malfoy was onstage a foe of Harry Potter.

The thing I wanted to reflect on was the idea (not found on the Potter Wiki, at least in that linguistic shape) that Draco Malfoy was "the chosen one" — to be helping out Voldemort in his evil plans.

Now, there is a problem about this meme.

Jesus and Mary are chosen. By God. God being Jesus can be very sure He Himself will not walk away from His chosen role. He also was sure that His blessed Mother would freely chose Him.

But supposing Draco was chosen, by whom was it? Even if he was the Devil's pick, the Devil is not almighty.

In the real world (but Harry Potter is a series of fantasy books and fantasy films), Draco could not have been effectively the chosen one in such a way as to be incapable of resisting. Or - obviously as for the books - defecting.

However, could such a nightmarish chosenness have been possible in Rowling's fiction? Since she is not Catholic, she may have Calvinist views on the matter.

So, in the real world, can one be Satan's chosen one and still not fall into damnation? Obviously, Satan could have asked God, and therefore have had a share in God's foreknowledge— but only if God was willing to give it. What is pretty much more certain is, God does not seem to be willing to directly share it with men. Yes, God has revealed the gematria of Satan's ultimate chosen one (and one who will not finally resist), but that gematria is shared by more than one. In fact, by more than two, so one cannot even say that "one of them must be the Antichrist and one the false prophet" ... if two of the suspects are currently visiting France, let's recall, there are other suspects.* Let's also recall, if they should be the ones, it would be a very bad idea to dream of eliminating them (or the one who's agressing Ukraine), by murder, since it is probable from prophecy the murder would fail, and also if so, that the failed attempt could be the perfect excuse for the Antichrist to turn on believers in prophecy as against fomenters of violence, thereby starting the countdown to Armageddon. Or intensifying it, if it has (as I think) already started.

Obviously, this was more of a reflexion on Voldemort than on Draco.** Hope Tom Felton won't mind. After all, his role character was fairly centered on that other role character.

Hans Georg Lundahl
Paris
St. Salaberga of Laon, Abbess***
22.IX.2023

Lauduni, in Gallia, sanctae Salabergae Abbatissae.***

* Tim Cohen doesn't share this view. I speak for my view, not his, but I am not trying to withhold his.
** VOLDEMORT = 700, but VOLDEMOR = 616. Not exactly the best candidate for the right gematria, but one of the candidates. Supported by St. Caesarius of Arles, if not by St. Irenaeus.
*** Obviously there are other saints for the real celebration on Hobbit Day, but Salaberga is French and also sounds a bit like a female character at Hogwarts.

Club 21 and Top of the Blogs (over a Year)

Club 21 alphabetic order		Top of the Blogs rough order of page views

Abuse of Psychiatry · Against SatanCon, TFP Student Action, Reparation · An ex-Kibbutznik · Angels chosing orbits = no violation of laws of physics ? · Antipigiste, les modalités spécifiques à cette agence de features Austria-Hungary and Ukraine · Autocomplete · Avant d'idéaliser la Russie, regardez leurs retraites s v p · Basically What a Stepfather Told Ma More Than Once · Bogouroditsa, ôtez Poutine Bonum Festum Decollationis sancti Ioannis Baptistae · Bonum Festum Sancti Laurentii · China - Not My Favorite Model · 2654 par jour du monde, dont 1531 de France · Documented by a Psychiatrist? Do The French Work Too Little? No. Not for Others · Est-ce que j'ai des ennemis? · Et la semaine en top des blogs · Index XXXVI in English, Immaculate Conception 2021 to Candlemass 2022 · "Inspiring Philosophy" pretends to trace YEC to Ellen White J'ai lu le début des oeuvres de Karl Marx · Je n'ai jamais prétendu que "ma parole suffit" · Merci Sainte Agathe! · Midpoints of years Debate and Antimodernism Blogs · Qui m'en veut? Russie en top la semaine, 24.II à 2.III.2023 · Some People Think Vikings Were Nazis · Taylor Marshall and Charles Coulombe Discuss the Matter of Westminister · Vous aimez Fantômette ?		Factuality of the Bible - Guestpost · Certains mots n'éclairent pas l'esprit : exemple "paralittérature" · On the Duty of Avoiding Errorists · Why Burl Ives Didn't Give Chords for All Keys · Il y a des gens, ce qui leur gâche des média populaires est la question raciale Beginning to update, Scope and Nature of Theology (Part II) · Andantino de Bonsergent (tourné correctement) · Commenting, but not linking : female teachers sleeping with students · Creationism and Geocentrism are sometimes used as metaphors for "outdated because disproven inexact science" · Dawkins said Edgar Andrews had his book From Nothing to Nature "well written", that is one true word from him ... Accusative and Dative for English speakers ... · BEVAR CHRISTIANIA · Contra Lesch · Aus Chromosome/Wiki/de · How is Chick erroneous about where we got the Bible from? I was wrong. · XXVIII Some Fairclough I did try (13+) · Géocentrisme, ma vers. 2 · Looking for the Pope ... (bis) · impressa in octavo Index in stephani tempier condempnationes · À l'époque quand Antimodernism était un groupe MSN ... · Exercitia simplicissima de casuum et temporum utilitate · No, it is not true! Iran here too! · Filioque far older than III Council of Toledo Father Filippo Anfossi was right against Giuseppe Settele · Answer on Acts (to Dick Harfield) · Le Retour de Don Quichotte · Öppet bref om ungdomars äktenskap · 15-VII-2004, Svallerup, Kalundborg, AArhus Dimanche, 1-VIII-2004, Deutschland - Nederlande · 18-VIII-2004, le pélerinage a pied recommence: Pamplune - Puente La Reina · 4-IX-2004, Ledigos - Alb. Municipal La Trinidad, Sahagún · 21-IX-2004, Cacabelos - Ave Fenix, Villafranca del Bierzo · Ordningen här (för den som vill) main index · VIII to XIV · A Problem with Ivugi Community, as Portrayed by John Davis · Intentions and Theorems, Continued · Mission failed Le bâtiment · Faut croire le crédo · Oui, oui, non, non

Thursday 21 September 2023

Bonum Festum Sancti Matthaei Apostoli

Christifidelibus lectoribus exopto./HGL

In Aethiopia natalis sancti Matthaei, Apostoli et Evangelistae; qui, in ea regione praedicans, martyrium passus est. Hujus Evangelium, Hebraeo sermone conscriptum, ipso Matthaeo revelante, inventum est, una cum corpore beati Barnabae Apostoli, tempore Zenonis Imperatoris.

In terra Saar* sancti Jonae Prophetae, qui sepultus est in Geth.** In Aethiopia sanctae Iphigeniae Virginis, quae, baptizata a beato Matthaeo Apostolo et Deo dicata, sancto fine quievit.

* Sennaar ?

** Quae civitas est in terra Philistinorum ...?

Ariane Lavrilleux 40 heures en garde à vue

La journaliste Ariane Lavrilleux en garde à vue : les soutiens se multiplient
Journal l'Humanité, 20 sept. 2023
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U8ThafV3jWc

Human Sacrifice is Attributed to Certain Sects

Obama Family Chef Dies While Paddleboarding on Martha’s Vineyard
https://www.nytimes.com/2023/07/24/us/obama-chef-drowned-paddleboard.html

Tafari Campbell was a sous chef at the White House during the Obama administration and stayed on with the family when they moved to private life.

A helicopter files above a pond on Martha’s Vineyard.
Emergency responders searching for Tafari Campbell on Monday morning after he disappeared while paddleboarding in Edgartown Great Pond.Credit...Ray Ewing

Remy Tumin
By Remy Tumin
July 24, 2023
A personal chef to the Obama family died over the weekend after he was seen struggling in the water while paddleboarding near the former first family’s home on Martha’s Vineyard, the Massachusetts State Police said on Monday.

The body of the chef, Tafari Campbell, 45, of Dumfries, Va., who was visiting the Vineyard, was found just before 10 a.m. Monday* about 100 feet from shore in Edgartown Great Pond in water about eight feet deep by the Massachusetts Environmental Police. It had deployed sonar from a boat during an hourslong search that began Sunday night and involved several law enforcement agencies.**

Subscribe to The Times to read as many articles as you like.

Remy Tumin is a reporter for The Times covering breaking news and other topics. More about Remy Tumin

Share full article***

20.IX.2023 Charles III on state visit in France.

Like 20:10, RER A was blocked and then resumed slowly after a grave accident of person at La Défense.

The timing is 59 to perhaps 60 days ...

20.IX
51.VIII
82.VII
23.VII / (22.VII)
_______
59 / 60 days

I would be relieved to find out there was no one who died at La Défense. But RER typically never states whether someone is dead or just injured.

Years ago, I found a graffiti at La Défense, claiming human sacrifice went on there.

Too little for clinching? Yeah, perhaps, but the timing looks bad .../HGL

PS, see also: Woman jumps from the 21st floor and leaves no clue of her identity
Georgia Marie, 20 Sept. 2023
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sN1SZudl22Q

* July 24 itself.
** Sunday 23.
*** See also : Feds COVER-UP Death At Obama Mansion | Police Report Just LEAKED! Witness SILENCED, Body "Naked?"
Benny Johnson, 20 Sept. 2023
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ia2RoSRz2qk

Wednesday 20 September 2023

What is "my mother told me" really about ?

In Vikings and other media (Valhalla Calling / Assassin's Creed), a certain song has been widely featured.

When you go to the normal English translation, a certain line of old Norse

mær skulði kaupa

is translated

I should buy

But in actual old norse, mær is the dative, so it really means

they should buy me

This is not just a linguistic mix-up. It completely changes the situation. The song in Vikings would normally imply sth like a mother raising each of the warriors with this exact ambition : buying a ship and good oars, getting an axe, hewing foes ...

The real situation in the Old Norse poem is explained in this video by Jackson Crawford:

That Viking "Sea Shanty" (in Old Norse)
Jackson Crawford, 30 June 2021
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KwUkiIDv7Is

Skipping some detail, the seven year old boy Egill Skallagrímsson is beaten in wrestling, kills an older boy with a weapon, and his behaviour is being discussed. The poem as such is what Egill composes on hearing his mother's view on it, which was "look, you are / he is, already a good Viking" ...

When she says they should buy Egill a ship, she's just expanding on that.

I think that says quite a lot of the Viking view on life, but before the poem is taken as very exemplar, how about noting that it was actually composed by a seven year old boy who had just committed his first murder, it was not his nec plus ultra in skaldic poetry. It's like taking Mozart's first minuet and pushing that as the nec plus ultra of Viennese classicism. Mozart's first minuet was, by the way, composed at a comparable, even slightly younger age, I think I recall he was just five. He was homeschooled by a musician father, and early on raised for that business. A somewhat more agreeable one than the Viking lifestyle./HGL

PS - parlant de Vikings et leur mauvais mœurs, je viens d'entendre une moitié de conversation en suédois, un proche vient de perdre un porte-monnaie, et quand je lui propose de venir vers mon ordinateur, le vieux connard refuse, il est tellement occupé, mais s'occuper de sauver la situation de son proche plutôt que de lui faire des reproches pour avoir lâché le porte-monnaie, ça ne lui vient pas en esprit. Quand il se prend le temps de quitter l'ordi, il m'assure, assez contrairement à ce qu'il avait dit à son proche, que ce serait presque certainement un pick-pocket qui avait volé .... il aurait dû au moins demander à sa sœur d'essayer ... non, non, non ... espérons qu'il change d'avis, que j'ai plus qu'une fois crié "rue des Morillons" et qu'ensuite il demande à qqn d'autre ... mais il est d'abord hypercritique de sa sœur et ensuite hyperpessimiste pour ce qui se passe et encore dédaigneux quand j'essaie de l'aider .../HGL

Monday 18 September 2023

Angels chosing orbits = no violation of laws of physics ?

Assorted retorts from yahoo boards and elsewhere: Sabine Hossenfelder Studied in Mainly Non-Catholic Schwalbach am Taunus · somewhere else: Do Determinisms in Material Processes Leave Room for Free Decisions by Souls or God Over Matter? · New blog on the kid: Angels chosing orbits = no violation of laws of physics ?

More than 300 years ago, Isaac Newton wrote down his foundational laws of motion, and mathematicians have been working on solutions to the three-body problem pretty much ever since. There is no single correct answer; instead, there are many orbits that can work within the laws of physics for three orbiting objects.

LiveScience | Mathematicians find 12,000 new solutions to 'unsolvable' 3-body problem News
By Briley Lewis, published 15.IX.2023
https://www.livescience.com/physics-mathematics/mathematicians-find-12000-new-solutions-to-unsolvable-3-body-problem

I think I said something about laws of nature allowing such under-determination for some given events as to really give God and angels an opportunity for any body and human souls for their own body.

This news is perhaps not exactly the kind of thing I was thinking of, or perhaps it is ?

Meanwhile ... will even four bodies "within the solar system" work so that for any three of them one of the valid 12 000 solutions is applicable ? For instance, Earth, Sun, Jupiter and Saturn ...*

I don't know that either.

But I am very sure, this is not a refutation of angelic movers./HGL

* This means the following three body combinations:
1) E, Su, J; 2) E, Su, Sa; 3) E, J, Sa; 4) Su, J, Sa.

L'inacceptable, c'est l'obligation scolaire

Voici ce que je vois* après d'avoir vérifié sur Nicolas :

Le lycéen s'était plaint l'année dernière de harcèlement dans son établissement scolaire, ses parents avaient écrit à l'administration et avaient reçu en réponse des courriers jugeant leur attitude "inacceptable".

Peu m'importe si les harceleurs étaient des suprématistes blancs se plaignant de la présence d'un coloré, des Musulmans le prenant en cible parce que Chrétien (de culture chrétienne ?), des Noirs le jugeant traître à la race parce que Chrétien, des gens ciblant quelque faiblesse supposée ou réelle (non révélée dans l'article) — l'inacceptable est de dire qu'il était son devoir à faire face à ces gens chanque jour, ne jamais être libéré de leur présence, ni par leur expulsion, ni par l'accord de scolarité à maison pour lui-même.

L'obligation scolaire tue./HGL

* dans l'article :

SUICIDE D'UN LYCÉEN À POISSY: LES PARENTS DE NICOLAS "OUTRÉS ET EFFARÉS" PAR LE COURRIER DU RECTORAT
Juliette Desmonceaux avec AFP, Le 18/09/2023 à 8:27
https://www.bfmtv.com/police-justice/suicide-d-un-ado-a-poissy-les-parents-de-nicolas-outres-et-effares-par-le-courrier-du-rectorat_AN-202309180227.html

Sunday 17 September 2023

Finance World / Antichrist ?

Apocalypse or Revelation 13:17 ... during recent years, many places could not be entered without mask, and others even not without an app in the cell phone saying one took the vaccine. Now look at this:

'No Apologies' From 'Weaponized' Banks Canceling Faith Groups
CBN News | 14 Sept. 2023
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6w9kX_CNZpk

Read the Full Story:

'No Apologies' From 'Weaponized' Banks Canceling Faith Groups
09-14-2023, Dale Hurd, US, CBNNEWS.COM
https://cmsedit.cbn.com/cbnnews/us/2023/september/no-apologies-from-weaponized-banks-canceling-faith-groups

Saturday 16 September 2023

Je n'allais pas répondre avant de vérifier avec Anne-Noëlle Clément

Avant de vérifier que son propos d'alors reste le sien.

Si la page avait encore été sur le site du diocèse de Valence, je l'aurais présumé, mais je la trouve dans un cache, pas la page originale.

Science et foi entre concordisme et parallélisme.
https://archive.wikiwix.com/cache/index2.php?url=http%3A%2F%2Fvalence.cef.fr%2FScience-et-foi-entre-concordisme.html%3Fartpage%3D3-3#federation=archive.wikiwix.com&tab=url

Ce cache semble encore être accessible pour tous les lecteurs de la wikipédia, et donc, Anne-Noëlle Clément pouvait avoir changé avis ou non, sa page reste d'actualité, à travers la wikipédie francophone.

https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Concordisme

L'acceptation de la seule lecture littérale comme vérité scientifique par les fondamentalistes induit le « créationnisme ». À l'opposé, il est possible de déclarer l'absence de rapports entre science et religion, ce qui conduit au « parallélisme »². Le concordisme est né au xixe siècle dans la sphère chrétienne, pour tenter d'accorder quelques passages de la Bible avec des découvertes scientifiques.
...
² Science et foi entre concordisme et parallélisme* [archive], Anne-Noëlle Clément, diocèse de Valence.

* Pour le premier lien :
La page que vous cherchez n'existe pas ou plus
https://valence.cef.fr/Science-et-foi-entre-concordisme.html

On va donc, tour à tour, considérer comme "concordisme" une fois le créationnisme jeune terre, une autre fois les lectures jour-période du xixe siècle ou "big bang"="fiat lux" du pape Pie XII dans le xxe siècle ...

Les rapports entre science et foi ont évolué au cours des siècles, en même temps que la science se développait. Les découvertes du XXème siècle avec Darwin et la théorie de l’évolution, et l’astrophysique et le modèle du big-bang, n’ont cessé d’obliger les chrétiens à relire leurs textes fondateurs. "Que dit l’Écriture, et en particulier que disent les récits de Création dans le livre de la Genèse ?" s’interrogent les chrétiens de toutes les confessions.

Pas tout à fait. Il y a des petites confessions — genre les Independent Baptist de Pensacola, Floride, dont vient Kent Hovind, et les orthopapismes Palmarisme et Conclavisme (je suis ex-Palmarien et actuallement Conclaviste) qui ne partagent pas l'interrogation, mais plutôt la conviction de toutes les siècles.

S’il y a accord entre foi chrétienne et raison, l’Écriture et la science ne peuvent pas se contredire.

La foi chrétienne est une des qualités possibles de la raison humaine. Parler d'accord ou de désaccord entre les deux, c'est comme de parler d'accord ou de désaccord entre "blonde" et "cheveux" ...

Quand il semble y avoir incompatibilité apparente, il faut soit changer notre interprétation de l’Écriture (en proposant une lecture symbolique par exemple), soit contester les résultats ou les modèles scientifiques, soit encore déclarer les deux domaines totalement étrangers l’un à l’autre.

L'énumération des possibilités est en soi correcte. On peut contester qu'elle prend "changer notre interprétation de l'Écriture" en premier lieu comme suggérant que ceci serait la démarche surtout correcte, mais on ne peut pas contester que les possibilités se résument à :

proposer la science comme correcte en déclarant la lecture traditionnelle incorrecte;
proposer la lecture traditionnelle incorrecte en proposant la science comme incorrecte;
proposer la science et une lecture de la Bible à la fois correctes, en prétendant les domaines séparés.

Notez s'il vous plaît que la lecture de la Bible qu'on garde peut dans ce dernier cas pas juste être, mais devoir être, une autre lecture que celle qui est traditionnelle. Pour déclarer que Genèse 3 ne touche pas l'anthropologie moderne, il faudra :

réinterpréter la chronologie de Genèse 5 et 11 comme ne pas constituant une information chronologique
ou très radicalement réinterpréter Genèse 3 pour nier qu'Adam et Ève étaient nos premiers parents qui ont réellement et individuellement vécu.

On appelle "concordisme" la volonté de faire coïncider les résultats scientifiques avec le donné biblique lu de manière quasiment littérale.

Dans la francophonie. Personne dans les États-Unis ou la Suède pourrait qualifier la "tentation de Pie XII" (voir la section suivante) comme une "lecture" (même quasiment) "littérale" du "fiat lux" ...

Le concordisme : confusion des domaines
- La tentation de Pie XII

Déjà le titre de la section est tout un programme.

Suite aux nouvelles découvertes en cosmologie – on commence à élaborer la théorie du big-bang - , le pape Pie XII va être tenté par le concordisme.

Madame Clément, avez-vous lu Jacques Arnould ou quelque chose ?

En effet, cette nouvelle découverte en astrophysique semblant s’harmoniser avec le récit de Genèse 1 où la lumière a la première place, le pape identifie quasiment le big-bang et le « fiat lux » biblique. D’autres assimilent le chaos primordial du premier récit de la Genèse ou le néant de la création ex nihilo avec un vide quantique d’où a pu surgir la matière de l’univers…

Si tout entre une lecture de la Genèse chapitres 1 et 2 calquée entièrement (sauf pour un ou deux trucs de théologie, méta-récit plutôt que récit) sur les découvertes réelles ou fictices, balayant systématiquement le sens obvie de la Bible et la dénonciation de pseudo-science moderne en défense du sens biblique et des preuves pour l'existence de Dieu (ce qui est aussi biblique, voir Romains ch. 1 !) est qualifié de "concordisme" il y a pas mal de positions qui peuvent être tâchées par l'association avec cette démarche de Pie XII.

C’est ce que des croyants font encore volontairement ou maladroitement.

Est-ce que tous les "concordismes" se valent en ceci ?

Mais en effectuant de tels transferts, on amalgame des domaines différents dans un discours homogène.

Je dirais que le problème n'est pas là.

Tout d'abord, un discours peut très bien conjuguer des domaines différents et n'a pas besoin d'adapter le ton tour à tour à l'un ou l'autre.

Mais ensuite, il y a un domaine qui est commun à la Genèse chapitre 1 et au discours sur le big bang : le déroulement dans le temps.

Assez obviement, la lecture obvie de Genèse 1 dit quelque chose là-dessus, et le dit de manière incompatible avec ce que dit "la science" là-dessus. On ne peut pas alléguer à la fois que le fiat lux était moins que 144 heures avant la formation d'Adam et que le big bang était des milliards d'annes avant le premier homme.

La maladresse ne se trouve pas vraiment dans une initiative toute personnelle de Pie XII. Il était héritier du périodiste Fulcran Vigouroux, pour qui des jours de création pouvaient être des périodes géologiques.

Si l'identification de "fiat lux" avec "big bang" fait mal ou paraît une maladresse, c'est qu'elle applique la permission donnée en 1909. Notons que celle-ci était une simple permission, pas une obligation, la lecture littéraliste restait licite, et qu'elle fonctionnait mieux sur un niveau un peu plus amateuresque que le mien dans les "découvertes scientifiques" ... quand Pie XII choque la sensibilité (ou sensiblerie) professionnelle de l'abbé Lemaître, c'est en lecture ultime la permission signé Vigouroux qui était en jeu. Il y a des permissions sur lesquelles en rétrospect on peut dire "toutes les choses sont permises, mais pas toutes les choses ne sont utiles" ...

D’autres croyants, s’en tenant à la vérité d’une lecture "fondamentaliste" de l’Ecriture, cherchent à contester les résultats scientifiques concernant l’âge de l’univers et l’évolution des espèces. Aux Etats-Unis, ces chrétiens sont dits "créationnistes".

Merci infiniment de nous donner au moins DEUX phrases ! Même si c'était en marge des concordistes ...

A l’opposé, certains chrétiens s’en tiennent à un parallélisme strict entre les deux domaines.

Encore davantage, quasi tous les Juifs sadducéens. Stephen Jay Gould n'innove pas par rapport à Moïse Mendelssohn, mais avouons que certains Protestants n'ont rien à envier, car Dean Inge n'innove pas radicalement vis-à-vis Kant ou Schleiermacher.

Que des Catholiques adoptent cette position me dérange davantage — ils innovent par rapport à St. Thomas d'Aquin !

Le parallélisme : séparation stricte des domaines

Cette position a pour fondement diverses attitudes philosophique, religieuse, et théologique. Elle peut s’exprimer dans la distinction courante entre le comment et le pourquoi.

Deux remarques pertinents :

la distinction est un sous-domaine de la distinction de Kant entre le phénoménon et le nouménon, l'observable par les sens et "les secrets derrière" dont la pensée affirme l'existence, mais pas les qualités
Genèse 1 dit quand même pas mal sur le "comment" et les théories scientifiquent affirment dans leur "pourquoi" une absence d'action divine immédiate ...

- L’abbé Lemaître

C’est un ecclésiastique, l’abbé Lemaître, astrophysicien belge, qui a réalisé la première synthèse entre l’observation et la théorie aboutissant à l’hypothèse de l’atome primitif en 1931. Celui-ci a commencé par chercher une concordance entre ses résultats scientifiques et la Bible, mais a ensuite prôné une séparation radicale entre science et religion. Il y a pour lui "deux chemins, vers deux vérités différentes", une vérité surnaturelle "mise à notre portée par le Christ et son Église", vérité de la foi, et une vérité naturelle "immédiatement proportionnée à la puissance de notre intelligence", vérité de la science. L’existence de ces deux vérités implique l’autonomie des deux savoirs correspondants.

Est-ce que Lemaître est volontairement tombé dans les positions de Kant, condamnées par la mise sur l'Index Librorum de ses ouvrages, les trois critiques ? Ou est-ce maladroitement ?

Dieu aura déjà tranché là-dessus le 20 juin 1966 (zone horaire de Louvain).

Pour lui, sa théorie de l’atome primitif "est entièrement étrangère à toute question métaphysique ou religieuse",

Si c'est une vraie théorie scientifique sur une vérité prouvée, ceci c'est mal connaître Aristote et St. Thomas. La métaphysique s'appelle ainsi parce que ses livres se trouvent "méta ta phusica" ("après celle de physique"), et elles se trouvent là par proximité du sujet. Quand Prima Metaphysicorum prouve Dieu, c'est en se référant en place prominent à Sexta Physicorum.

elle ne démontre ni n’infirme l’existence d’un Créateur, elle "laisse le matérialiste libre de nier tout Être transcendant.. " et "pour le croyant, elle exclut toute tentative de familiarité avec Dieu, en accord avec la parole d’Isaïe, parlant du Dieu caché" .

Elle est donc inutile sauf pour sa possible vérité ... une vérité qu'on peut bien contester du côté créationniste.

Mais le croyant en lui rendait grâce à "Celui qui a dit : Je suis la Vérité, qui nous a donné l’intelligence pour la connaître et pour lire un reflet de Sa Gloire dans notre univers qu’Il a merveilleusement adapté aux facultés de connaître dont Il nous a doués."

Je pense que ceci est assez proche de la position de Mahomet pour qui la théologie naturelle sont des signes "pour les croyants" ... en d'autres mots des choses desquelles la réflexion des incroyants ou mécréants passe à côté.

Sans doute y a-t-il dedans une certaine politesse vis-à-vis des non-Musulmans pendant son époque de Mecque, avant de devenir chef militaire. Il a constaté que des non-Musulmans, il y en avait jusques aux athées, et que la simple évocation de certaines observations qui prouvent Dieu (théologie naturelle, chose qu'il a quelque part en commun avec St. Paul) ne suffit pas pour les corriger, et a donc conclu que par leur nature de non-croyants, ils ont quelque part vocation à passer à côté.

Socrate était moins poli, mais il y gagnait la certitude (partagée par St. Paul) que certains d'autres n'étaient pas destinés à passer à côté, mais avaient en principe la capacité de comprendre. "Croire" que Dieu existe n'est donc pas proprement dit un acte de foi. Il peut être supplémenté par la foi chez les ignorants, mais c'est en soi une admission rationelle.

Si cette position est certainement plus saine que celle de Pie XII dans son discours du 22 novembre 1951, n’est-elle pas trop tranchée ? Le croyant scientifique ne risque-t-il pas d’être schizophrène s’il y a deux vérités ?

Pourquoi la position de l'abbé Lemaître serait-elle plus saine que celle de Pie XII ? Et en plus "certainement" ?

L’ambiguïté d’une telle attitude est qu’elle laisse la foi hors du champ de la raison, et donc qu’elle encourage toutes sortes de mysticisme et de spiritualité irrationnelle.

Quand elle vient de presque qualifier le créationnisme comme une sous-catégorie du concordisme et quand elle vient presque de prononcer que Kant et Schleiermacher valent mieux que l'Aquinat et Mahomet mieux que Socrate, et Moïse Mendelssohn que Moïse le fils d'Amram, je ne suis pas sûr de chercher le rempart contre l'irrationnel chez elle, surtout qu'elle met le mot mysticisme juste à côté ...

- Une attitude religieuse

Cette attitude religieuse a été présente dans toute l’histoire du christianisme de différentes manières. On la retrouve dans le piétisme, le fidéisme, ou le mysticisme. La foi est affaire de sentiment, de piété ou d’intuition. Elle est don de Dieu, sous l’emprise de l’Esprit Saint, et elle n’a pas à être rationalisée. Le rapport à Dieu est intime et subjectif, sans médiation. Tout est possible à Dieu, cela suffit pour répondre aux questions posées par la science.

Si la foi est don de Dieu, elle n'est pas affaire de sentiment ou de piété, par contre les sentiments de la piété sont affaires de la foi. Peut-on approuver la dévotion de Faustina Kowalska ? Pour certains Catholiques, ceci est contre la foi (dont pour la congrégation de l'Index d'une certaine époque).

Que tout est possible à Dieu est certes un très bon début pour répondre, non aux "questions posées par la science" (faits non-occurents, la science n'ayant ni bouche ni plume ni clavier) mais aux arguments posés par les adhérents de certaines "découvertes scientifiques" ...

Cette attitude ... attitude que nous ne développerons pas ici.

Une chose de moins à citer et à réfuter donc ...

Une troisième voie ?

Une troisième voie pourrait être tentée, mais celle-ci se trouve sur une ligne de crête, risquant toujours de basculer d’un côté ou de l’autre…

Surtout si on a déjà défini la distinction de manière que chaque attitude sauf le pur rejet soit de tout Christianisme soit de toute science devient soit "concordiste" soit "paralléliste" — non ?

Par contre, ici Anne-Noëlle va finalement donner sa recherche d'une position ni celle de Pie XII, ni celle de Lemaître.

Elle va louper (dans le suite du texte, espérons pas pour le futur de sa vie) que la position des créationnistes répond déjà à ce qu'elle cherche.

Le minimum serait d’établir un cahier des charges pour fonder un dialogue sain entre science et foi, plus exactement entre scientifiques et théologiens.

Merci déjà pour éviter la bourde "raison et foi" (ça sonne comme "cheveux ET blonde"). Science et foi sont effectivement deux qualités de la raison, et elles se croisent. On peut être doct et fidèle, on peut être ignorant et infidèle, on peut être doct et infidèle et on peut être ignorant sauf pour les vérités chéries de la foi — les quatre cas existent.

Les théologiens doivent répondre à l’invitation des scientifiques, en particulier dans les questions autour de l’astrophysique et de l’origine de l’univers, dans les problèmes écologiques et dans les questions éthiques autour du sens de l’humain.

Et si les créationnistes faisaient déjà ça ?

Pour cela, l’annonce de la foi chrétienne et la théologie ne peuvent ignorer les dernières théories physiques ou biologiques. Elles ne peuvent pas utiliser des termes scientifiques sans les maîtriser, sous peine de non-crédibilité, on le voit dans le débat autour de la bioéthique aujourd’hui. N’est-il pas temps que davantage de théologiens aient des bases scientifiques suffisantes pour engager un dialogue véritable avec des scientifiques de haut niveau ?

Le grand public, y compris les plus athées, va utiliser des termes scientifiques sans les maîtriser sans de se soucier d'une guigne de leur non-crédibilité ...

Je cite Laurent Dupont, et notons, la question n'est pas sur l'évolution du latin en français, mais l'émergence supposée évolutive de toute langue humaine :

La complexité du langage humain est en effet difficile à réduire à des termes simples de « complexe » ou « simple ». Cependant, il est possible de décomposer le langage en éléments plus simples, tels que les phonèmes et les morphèmes, pour mieux comprendre son évolution.

Voir notre débat:
Pas avec des singeries, débat avec Laurent Dupont
https://repliquesassorties.blogspot.com/2023/09/pas-avec-des-singeries-debat-avec.html

Ce qui est impliqué quand on parle de l'évolution de la langue humaine à partir des prétendues origines pré-humaines est précisément l'apprentissage de tisser un message globale à partir de niveaux inférieurs, tel les morphèmes et phonèmes. Il semble avoir loupé ça totalement.

Mais en tant que classe privilégié, informaticien, et en tant que croyant dans l'Évolutionnisme, il joue d'une crédibilité non méritée. La crédibilité est subjective, et on ne peut pas (au moins pas moralement) permettre à la communauté scientifique telle quelle est de nos jours à déterminer quelles choses sont ou ne sont pas crédibles pour leurs adversaires (car cette communauté est largément athée et les Chrétiens qu'il a ont trop souvent les attitudes d'un Lemaître ou Galilée).

Le lieu où se croisent science et théologie est la philosophie, il ne faut pas se tromper de domaine. C’est dans ce secteur qu’il faudra chercher une articulation possible entre science et foi.

Et une question philosophique très pertinente est justement l'épistémologie.

Les adhérents de "découvertes scientifiques" qui se "trouvent en tension" (ou plus crument en contradiction) avec la Bible se trompent parfois sur ce qui est possible (genre d'imaginer la possibilité d'une humanisation et d'une évolution du langage humain, ou de l'abiogenèse, et encore quelques), mais encore beaucoup sur ce qui est possible à savoir.

Une démarche qui pourrait être explorée est celle de Paul dans le fameux discours devant l’Aréopage d’Athènes. ...

Lemaître s'imaginait peut-être en train de faire la démarche de St. Paul. Pie XII, Dean Inge, et les fondamentalistes s'imaginent certainement dans cette démarche.

Et l'existentialiste Anne-Noëlle Clément aussi, apparemment :

... Nous pourrions dire que la quête scientifique peut nous faire faire un bout de chemin vers Dieu, en ouvrant notre intelligence à la reconnaissance du Dieu Créateur. La Révélation chrétienne peut venir s’inscrire sur cette voie, mais elle y provoque une rupture, c’est là que se situe la foi. La foi demande toujours un "saut" ?, entre la fin de nos raisonnements scientifiques rationnels et la présence de Dieu, il y a un "hiatus" ? qu’on ne peut franchir que dans l’abandon confiant entre les mains de celui qui nous attend un peu plus loin, notre Créateur et Sauveur.

Pour St. Augustin, il y a ce saut quand il s'agit de répondre à une vocation (car il semblait incapable d'imaginer de se marier avec la mère d'Adéodat, et il était probablement incapable à vouer à une autre une fidélité qu'elle ne pourrait jamais adombrer). Pour St. Thomas, ce saut se situe entre le Dieu d'Aristote et le Dieu Trin et Un de la Foi catholique. Pour certains de nos jours, apparemment, hélas, déjà dans le fait d'admettre que Dieu existe.

Le problème n'est pas qu'ils ont ce problème (bon, c'est un problème aussi, mais surtout pour eux*). Le problème est qu'ils réduisent les fondamentalistes qui n'ont pas ce problème (et pas forcément celui de Protestantisme non plus, voyons Hugh Owen, Robert Sungenis ou moi-même) à une sous-catégorie de la pseudo-catégorie "concordisme" ...

Hans Georg Lundahl
Paris
Ste Édithe
16.IX.2023

In Anglia sanctae Edithae Virginis, Regis Anglorum Edgari filiae, quae, in monasterio a teneris annis Deo dicata, saeculum hoc ignoravit potius quam reliquit.

* Le poëme de Hilaire Belloc qui a comme refrain "caritas non perturbat me" me vient en esprit. Ceci sans doute ne voulant pas dire qu'il refuse d'avoir la charité, mais que la charité envers les égarés ne le tient pas débout en prière nuit après nuit dans les Églises, il se confesse ne pas être un St. Dominic de Guzman, priant devant Dieu "quid fit de peccatoribus" comme Sainte Marie Goretti priait pour le Serenelli.

Thursday 14 September 2023

Bonum Festum Exaltationis sanctae Crucis

Christifidelibus lectoribus exopto./HGL

Exaltatio sanctae Crucis, quando Heraclius Imperator, Chosroa Rege devicto, eam de Perside Hierosolymam reportavit.

Wednesday 13 September 2023

Sharing on Rejection of Apparent Popes Apparently Heretical

Fr Altman's Declaration About Francis Got Backlash From Unexpected Places
Return To Tradition, 11 Sept. 2023
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X72PP8cJcUU

Can Someone Contribute With No Formal Training on the Subject?

Mathematics may give you an answer here:

A Hobbyist Just Solved a 50-Year-Old Math Problem (Einstein Tile)
Up and Atom, 3 sept. 2023
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A1BhOVW8qZU

When I pretend to give a good list of carbon dates related to real dates between the Flood and the Fall of Troy, I do not pretend to have professional training in carbon dating.

I claim I know what a calibration is, and I claim as a Christian I have a right to think the Biblical history (or history in general) is a better calibrator than tree rings.

When I claim to identify certain carbon dated objects with certain Biblical and therefore dated events, I do not claim to be an expert in archaeology, or on the Bible. I claim to profit from archaeology in ways that Biblical scholars have missed out on, and to profit from the Bible in ways that often atheist or non-literalist archaeologists miss out on.

When I make a claim like "man has a language, which could never have evolved from the communication system of apes" I claim to know some universals about human language. I claim to have learned them, not by knowing all languages, but from people who have studied language after language and never found an exception.

Is "verb second" (V-2)* a universal? No, it's pretty unique to Germanic, and English and Dutch tend to go a bit looser with it, through influence from Romance, specifically mostly from French.

Is "nominative contrasts with accusative" a universal? No, it's common, but a huge minority of languages instead has "ergative contrasts with absolutive"** - Basque is one.

So, how can I confidently say that this is a universal? Here:

A PHRASE IS MADE UP OF MORPHEMES

There seem to be lots and lots of exceptions to any rule, right? Any rule of any language can contrast with any different rule from any different language. Yes, but "verb 1" in Arabic and "verb 2" in German, "nominative contrasts with accusative" in both, "ergative contrasts with absolutive" in Basque, all of these are about how phrases are made up of morphemes. None of these rules with these known exceptions are THAT a phrase is made up of morphemes.

But there is more to it. Human verbal communication, invariably found at work anywhere in any remote corner of the world, as long as there is a human population, requires phrases with complete meanings to be made of morphemes with incomplete meanings, and morphemes to be made up of very few, small, recogniseable things called phonemes, that have no meaning, but within morphemes code for its meaning.*** Because this is how human communication is able to convey an infinity of different content on topics of interest. Apes communicate on very restricted grounds, a bit like smileys and traffic signs.

I know this, because it was a topic of conversation between me and my Latin professor, more than once.°

If you read French, you have already seen me make this answer in another form.°°

Nothing in my activity as writer involves a claim of being the accredited expert that I am not. Nothing in the laws surrounding writing and publication require someone to publish only what experts say. I have not made any claim to being what I am not. If anyone thinks I have, he is not looking at my situation from the point of view of Western culture in which it belongs, but more like from sth like an Oriental custom and honour based society. I am willing to be a good neighbour to Orientals who have immigrated here, I am not willing to have them make themselves the judges of whatever I try to do between us Westerners. And even less by traitors among Westerners, who sacrifice Western liberties to the viewpoint of Orientals.

Hans Georg Lundahl
Paris
St. Philip of Alexandria, martyr
13.IX.2023

Alexandriae natalis beati Philippi, patris sanctae Eugeniae Virginis. Hic, dignitatem Praefecturae Aegypti deserens, Baptismatis gratiam assecutus est; quem, in oratione constitutum, jussit Terentius Praefectus, ejus successor, gladio jugulari.

* Except in question sentences.
** They are not the same thing. Both at transitive verbs denote the role of "doer" and "done to" BUT they have a different relation to intransitive verbs. A subject of an intransitive verb is nominative in the one type, absolutive in the other type. Ergative differs from nominative, in being absent from intransitive verbs. Accusative differs from absolutive in being absent from intransitive verbs. Think of transitive verbs like tangos, with two people involved to them, facing each other, and intransitive verbs like breakdance with one dancer involved (or several parallel ones).
*** A phoneme is often designated with a letter or letter combination, sometimes with more than one letter or letter combination. S and J are letters, SJ are letter combinations in the Swedish alphabet, but SJ is not the only way to write the phoneme called SJE-ljud. Just as in Greek, the letter ιώτα is not the only way to write short I. That's why I say "phoneme" and not "letter" ... the reason I say "morpheme" and not "word" is, partly, "word" can sometimes refer to phrase, in Spanish "tengo", as one word, is a complete phrase, partly and related, even when it isn't, "tengo" is more than one morpheme, but one word, even so.
° He was a fan of linguistics, not just of Latin and of Medieval Latin texts.
°° Un non-expert, peut-il raisonner ?

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