The message is not being sufficiently preached that no one is created by God as a homosexual. - Michael Voris

Michael Voris on the matter:

ChurchMilitant-TV : NOT Born That Way
The truth needs to be said, because the lie is too destructive.
April 27, 2016
http://www.churchmilitant.com/video/episode/not-born-that-way

Some might perhaps be actually born that way, due to hormonal dysfunction due to stress during certain parts of pregnancy.

But even they do not have a genome pointing to sodomy or lesbian acts.

Even in that case, human evil choices are behind homosexuality, namely whoever put too much stress on the mother. The verdict of St Paul that desires against nature come from idolatry is not overturned. If certain ways of becoming homosexual are by the persons own idolatry, either of "rolemodels" of his own sex (in that case perhaps not sufficiently integrated) or of a sect that humbles the human nature, as in the case of Oscar Wilde being a freemason (he was buried masonically, so it is a fair guess), other ways affecting people earlier are from someone else's idolatrous choice.

But whether one is "that way" or not is not a measure on whether one cannot or can marry, usually. An unfortunate perverted desire for one's own sex does not absolutely preclude a natural desire for the opposite.

God predestines no one to evil:

We not only do not believe that any are foreordained to evil by the power of God, but even state with utter abhorrence that if there are those who want to believe so evil a thing, they are anathema.

Council of Orange (529 AD)*

God may predestine someone to chastity, even against his will, like by denying the normal function of genitals, but this is generally not the case with homosexuals. God is not predestining them to a situation in which they are both unable to be chaste and unable to marry, as other men and women. This means that the presence of a known homosexual predesposition is not an impediment to marrying someone of the opposite sex.

And this means sth about the pastoral which has on one hand brought some to fifteen years of therapy and on the other brings certain homosexuals in Paris to continuing their evil ways "because they have a right to be loved and to love" - indeed they do, they do have a right to turn back from their bad ways and to do the normal thing.

This also means, precisely as Voris implies, those who do not do so, do not have the excuse of saying "that's how God made me". No, you or some other men did so, not God.

Hans Georg Lundahl
Cergy St Christophe
Sts Peter of Verona
and Catherine of Siena
29.IV.2019

* Viva Catholic : Predestination in Catholicism
https://vivacatholic.wordpress.com/2007/08/12/predestination-in-catholicism/

Was eating the forbidden fruit a venial sin?

Here I am into answering three persons at once. Jim Rigby, who implies it was on any decent standard and that the God of the Bible who punishes original sin would be a moral monster if he existed.

Phil Robertson (whose article* quoting and answering Jim Rigby I am reading) who is distorting the doctrine of original sin. Because he is a Protestant.

And one commenter who discusses the French Revolution.

Jim Rigby, as quoted:

“I received some bad news this week. Apparently, because I don't believe in a literal resurrection, I'm not really Christian…

As I share meals with my family, I have to face the fact that while they are enjoying the heavenly banquet, I will be screaming in unending torment along with Jews and Democrats and the evil college professors who teach evolution…

My accusers explained to me that I had it all wrong. They said I did not understand the gospel. You see, the earth was once a paradise. The dinosaurs were actually gentle and friendly. But then Adam and Eve stole a piece of fruit. God got very angry. So God invented cancer and hemorrhoids to punish human beings for our treachery…

And God's righteousness is infinite, so God couldn't just forgive us or teach us how to do better. What might seem to some like a first time misdemeanor of shoplifting fruit, was actually an irreversible irredeemable sin…

So God decided to barbecue us eternally for the mistakes of our ancestors. But God has a son named Jesus who asked God to abuse him instead. And so God killed Jesus in our place. And we call this story, the "good news."

Oh, and we have to LITERALLY believe Jesus' corpse got up…”

My comment:

Sure, Jim, if you don't believe the Resurrection, the rest is folly. St Paul said so quite a while ago.

You argue that eating the forbidden fruit was normally speaking a venial sin, it would have been that if you or I had been doing it.

But Adam was much more perfect than either of us, he walked much closer with God and therefore he did not have the excuses we would have had.

Phil Robinson, as answering

His distortion of the biblical facts shows no appreciation for the holiness of God, or the reverence that we should have towards him. We ought to keep in mind the status and holiness of the One that was offended. The level of punishment corresponds to the infinite holiness of the One who was offended. In the case of the Fall, it was the eternal, omnipotent, omnipresent, omniscient and wholly pure God who was able to create the universe by the power of his word! Our sinful nature, inherited from our ancestor Adam, means that we are now naturally pre-disposed towards continually offending God. We exist in a sinful state, “None is righteous, no, not one; no one understands; no one seeks for God. All have turned aside; together they have become worthless; no one does good, not even one” (Romans 3:10–12). Hence, God cannot just teach, ‘us how to do better’, as, “We have all become like one who is unclean, and all our righteous deeds are like a polluted garment” (Isaiah 64:6). So it’s not a matter of God deciding to eternally punish sinners in Hell “for the mistakes of [their] ancestors”; we are each responsible to God for our own sin.

My comment:

Actually God does punish people as yet not responsible for any personal sin. Babies do suffer, and they do suffer for the sin of Adam.

As to eternal punishment, babies who die unbaptised do not go to the Hell of torments, as traditional Presbyterians (the ones against whom Jim Rigby is rebelling) would have it, but neither are they granted Heaven because they have as yet not had time to imitate Adam.

The guilt really is transmitted by propagation, as to Original sin, and not just through imitation, that being more a matter of certain personal sins, and of imitating people much closer to us in genealogy than Adam is.

Errol B., Australia, as commenting

250 years prior to the French revolution, France rejected the reformation in no uncertain terms. As a result, the French people were presented with a cruel, vindictive & unloving God which led to the French revolution & France was largely led into apostasy & atheism. I think it’s ironic that Jim Rigby could learn about God’s love from many modern day Catholics. Perhaps he should look at the history of the Presbyterian Church & what its founders believed.

I have on 5 occasions, after debating creation v evolution; asked non-believers if they agree with the peer-review methodology articulated by Dr Scott Todd & Prof Richard Lewontin (presented many times on creation.com). One man was asked repeatedly but still refused to answer. The conversation often turns nasty at this point & they resort to personal attacks. Could it be they've never critically examined their own bias or linked atheistic philosophy to their own paradigm? I'm sure the revelation that 'evolution' is a religious belief horrifies them.

My comment:

French Revolution was not very different from Russian Revolution after it or Protestant Reformations before it.

Monks fleeing from Gustaf Wasa or Frederick III of Denmark or Henry VIII experienced exactly the same horrors as monks fleeing from Danton or Robespierre.

One could argue that in the case of France, the horror was of lesser duration than in the case of either Russia (1917-1990, shadow perhaps returning) or England (Reformation to 1830, with some remission during Charles I, a fickle one under Charles II, a shortlived one under James VII and II, and a little more remission toward the end of the period - in the case of France it was just 1790 to 1815, or even just to 1804.

I agree that atheist evolutionists overlook the fact that they have a religious bias (as closely linked to Russian Revolution as Protestantism to the Reformation): the atheist part being just a negative position and the evolution part being "science, not religion". But they are indoctrinated by the sequels of one revolution, 1917, as much as Protestants by the sequel of another, 1517.

Hans Georg Lundahl
Nanterre UL
St Paul of the Cross
28.IV.2016

* See: CMI : An infuriated and vindictive God?
by Phil Robinson, Published: 28 April 2016
http://creation.com/an-infuriated-and-vindictive-god

Recall OSN I recommended?

Orange Street News : OSN BREAKS 600,000 VIEWS!!!
https://orangestreetnews.com/2016/04/24/osn-breaks-600000-views/

I wasn't tagged, but here goes anyway (OK, perhaps I was, after all)

• 1. What do you hope to accomplish with your blog?
  
  Some, perhaps? What were Inklings hoping to accomplish with their fiction? Well, my hopes go in their direction, not that of Wells or Shaw!
  
  
• 2. Are you a spiritual person?
  
  Ein Geistlicher? No, I am neither a monk nor a priest.
  
  Or does it mean sth else in English?
  
  
• 3. If you were stranded on a deserted island, what three things would you want to have with you?
  
  
  • Notebook with pen. Ideally more than one in all, and one with lines for making music sheets.
  • Chord for macramé.
  • Rosary.
  
  
  I suppose you meant where food, water and some shelter is provided outside of the "three things". Otherwise, adding above to the food I require is cheating.
  
  
• 4. What’s your favorite childhood memory?
  
  One is reading same room as ma, from time to time asking a question, one is bathing in New Port Beach.
  
  
• 5. Are these your first (tagging) memes?
  
  I wasn't even tagged in the first place, and it is not the first time I steal a meme!
  
  It's from here:
  Dymphna's Road : I've been tagged
  http://dymphnaroad.blogspot.com/2007/05/ive-been-tagged.html
  
  
• 6. Eight random facts about me.
  
  
  • i) I like writing and composing.
  • ij) I am not always sure how melodies I know are written, nor how melodies I see written (including my own) sound/
  • iij) I have an unsatisfaied nostalgia for learning Polish, Lithuanian and Celtic languages. With Polish and Lithuanian at least I took university courses.
  • iu) I also like dabbling with "creating" languages.
  • u) Me being a fan of Tolkien and Lewis may not count as random, after my first answer?
  • uj) Me being a non-fan of Wells and Shaw, etc?
  • uij) Some might find my textile passion effeminate, but I was actually stuck with two women in late childhood and learning the craft they could teach was one thing in the direction of getting as crafty as I could. Macramé has a more virile connotation than some.
  • uiij) I have a horror of psychiatry and psychology.

As to addition in title:

I tag anybody who wants to play. (Dymphna)

Here I was tagged:

All readers consider yourself tagged

• 1. Yourself: complicated.
• 2. Your spouse: future.
• 3. Your hair: long.
• 4. Your mother: nice.
• 5. Your father: absent.
• 6. Your favorite item: notebooks.
• 7. Your dream last night: worrying.
• 8. Your favorite drink: tea.
• 9. Your dream car: functioning.
• 10. The room you are in: huge.
• 11. Your ex: which?
• 12. Your fear: shrinks.
• 13. What you want to be in
• 10 years: dad.
• 14. Who you hung out with last night: none.
• 15. What you're not: married.
• 16. Muffins: good.
• 17: One of your wish list items: publication.
• 18: Time: calibration.
• 19. The last thing you did: mailed.
• 20. What you are wearing: usual.
• 21. Your favorite weather: sunshine.
• 22. Your favorite book: LotR.
• 23. The last thing you ate: muffin.
• 24. Your life: worried.
• 25. Your mood: calm.
• 26. Your best friend: Jesus.
• 27. What you're thinking about right now: solving.
• 28. Your car: past.
• 29. What you are doing at the moment: meming.
• 30. Your summer: sleepy.
• 31. Your relationship status: complicated.
• 32. What is on your TV: nothing.
• 33. What is the weather like: grey.
• 34. When was the time you laughed: dunno?

Could Paul Nicholson by any chance be referring to me?

Quoting via detours:

"That is why there are groups and individuals who can make a living off of bashing bishops. They survive on poorly formed Catholics. Do not follow or listen to anyone who bashes the sacred hierarchy. It is an evident sign they experience self-loathing." source, via secondary sources A and B

Er, no.

That is psycho-babble.

Expressing self loathing is, barring suspicions of facetious intent or deceptive intent, which suspicions may exist in individual cases, an evident sign that who is expressing it is experiencing self loathing.

Expressing loathing for someone else, like an evolutionist bishop, or for something else, like the fact some bishop (or supposed such) is an evolutionist, which I suspect the ecclesiastcial "Robber Baron" (guess whom I mean) to be, is instead an evident sign of who is expressing it experiencing loathing either for an individual man or for an act of such. In the case between me and Robert Barron, I am not loathing him, I just loathe his theory and try to bring it to him with some charity.

But this kind of psycho-babble which Paul Nicholson expressed here was rampant among Modernists, including Anglicans such as the late Tony Palmer.

Is it a coincidence that it comes into the open among "Catholics" (was perhaps there among MOdernists even earlier) just a few years after they accept Tony Palmer's friend Bergoglio as Pope of Rome and of the Catholic Church?

And this may just be a fluke, but the earlier of the sources I was citing was from Saturday .... the day on which I had made a comment about Antipope Wojtyla on Paul Nicholson's blog:

Telephone Newspapers: Blessed Timothy Giacarrdo
Thursday, October 22, 2015
by Paul Nicholson | on http://fatherpaulnicholson.blogspot.com/
http://fatherpaulnicholson.blogspot.com/2015/10/telephone-newspapers-blessed-timothy.html

He had written:

Happy feast day of St. John Paul II! Happy feast day of Bl. Timothy Giacarrdo! Did you know that the founder of the Pauline family, Fr. Alberione, foresaw the internet at the dawn of the 20th century. How excited he would be to use the internet to set the world on fire with the Gospel.

I expressed no reservation against Blessed Timothy Giacarrdo, nor against Fr. Alberione, but one against "St. John Paul II".

Here:

Of Saint who? His two Healing miracles are incomplete, the French nun had some relapse after miracle was recognised, the woman from South or Central America had delay before the complete remission. His own rules (if you consider he was Pope) in Lourdes state that Healing miracles there must be both sudden and without any relapse or remaining complications. And check out who Anna-Teresa Tymieniecka was! Would you canonise Lancelot or Tristan? Of course, that affair is also a kind of refutation against Dimond brothers who maintain he was the First Beast. That entity would perhaps not be so normal. Also, if that female philosopher had influence on his decision of Assisi meetings (in them selves great offenses to God), he may have had the excuse of an infatuated man following a bad idea from the woman he loved. [In other words : his sin makes him too normal to be an apocalyptic beast] Antipope Labor Solis indeed, male sunshine obfuscated by a female Moon ... if you get the symbolism. But Pope or Saint, no.

Did Paul Nicholson answer in so many words? No.

Can the above words be construed as referring to me?

It is a coincidence that first source for them is found quoting them same day as I wrote the comments.

It is also a coincidence that some have tried to stamp me as a sodomite. Even if I have little direct evidence, I have very plentiful indirect such, like Muslims spitting when they approach me begging in the street or like that confessor of St Nicolas du Chardonnet who told me I had to make a resolution, but he would not tell me which one (could also have been another rumour).

But one sentiment I do agree with, basically : it is wrong to attack the hierarchy, at least unless it has attacked you first.

However, I consider neither Antipope Wojtyla nor Antipope Bergoglio as duly part of hierarchy. I consider one was and one is an excommunicate heretic.

And is this kind of attitude such an "attack on hierarchy" as Paul Nicholson is talking about?

No, if that hierarchy has friendly relations with people like Tony Palmer who implicitly attack the hierarchy of a very LONG past, by the fact of adhering to a schism rejecting it, how can such a hierarchy become so virulent about a Catholic (or at worst in their view a recent schismatic) for rejecting very recent parts of their "hierarcvhy"?

Most of the time, I am leaving presumed (even if wrongly so) hierarchs alone. I am dealing with subjects, like Creationism. Sometimes this is construed as implying a rejection of the recent "hierarchy", which I have actually also done recently, in favour of Pope Michael (with some reservations of prudence).

But my comment was not a virulent attack on Antipope Wojtyla as a person, after writing it I actually went over to the Dimond brothers in order to defend him from charge of being in Hell and of being "the first beast". Perhaps I was wrong to do so. Perhaps I should have attacked him with more virulence. Anyway, I did not.

It is a remarcable coincidence that:

• Paul Nicholson makes a statement apparently general, but which can by some reading me be construed as implying I were a self loathing sodomite, which I am neither of;
• Michael Voris "sets a good example" by coming out as an x-sodomite (which I cannot do, since I do not have that kind of past);
• this is set in a setting where Michael Voris is said exercising "an apostolate" which I cannot in the proper sense be considered as doing, since having no missio apostolica for it;
• but Apologetics is here equated with formal apostolate in such a manner as to necessitate morally a "coming clear".

If Chesterton had had the past of Oscar Wilde (which he hadn't), I don't see why he should have been morally obliged to divulge it.

Chesterton was not in the proper sense exercising an apostolate, he was not guiding souls to virtue, he was simply pointing to truth - which you have a right to do even if not an apostle. Perhaps some Anglican puritans did insist he should come clear of his past in mediums and such, which he did in Autobiography, but he did not foreword this with any remark of this being his intention.

At any rate, no Catholic superiors were openly demanding he did so, that I know of, and if anyone prompted it from that kind of perspective, he did so secretly - in a way suggesting that this mania for equating simple intellectual apologetics with an apostolate and cura animarum was an Anglican fad and stranger to the Catholic discipline. But one to which prudentially Chesterton might give a sop, at least if doing so in a way NOT suggesting he had any formal duty to do so.

I intended in 1988 to convert to the Catholic Church that Gilbert Keith Chesterton found. I found another and much colder one. That and neither vocation per se nor homosexual guilt per se, is the sad story why, unlike Chesterton, I am still unmarried decades after my conversion.

Hans Georg Lundahl
Nanterre University Library
Feast of St Mark, Gospeller
and Major Litanies
25.IV.2016

Addendum:

It may be a bit unclear also why a writer who "experiences self loathing" (if so doing) should for that reason be considered avoided reading.

I don't think the index congregation ever indexed a book as forbidden to ordinary Catholic readers just because its author expressed self loathing.

And I am of the at least vague impression that self loathing or sth like it was even recommended, like by Scupoli in The Spiritual Combat or by Our Lord in Sermon on the Mount.

This aversion to reading anyone expressing self loathing seems more Pharisaic than Christian./HGL

Abbey Roads took a stylish farewell from Prince (Link)

Good night, sweet Prince. May hosts of angels sing you to sleep ...
by Terry Nelson
Thursday, April 21, 2016 | Abbey Roads
http://abbey-roads.blogspot.com/2016/04/good-night-sweet-prince-may-hosts-of.html

Purple Rain was once a favourite.

A National Socialist Gave Marrano Jews the Ultimate Compliment

He motivated his rejection of Christianity with Our Lord Jesus Christ being a "Marrano Jew".

Could Marrano Jews ever wish for a nicer compliment?

In Heaven, if the National Socialist is right, a Marrano Jew is King.

As Pius XI said to Christians "how can anyone be antisemite, spiritually speaking we are all Semites"./HGL

Cervantes and Shakespear (Link)

Miguel Cervantes, RIP
by Stephanie A. Mann
Friday, April 22, 2016 | Supremacy and Survival: The English Reformation
http://supremacyandsurvival.blogspot.com/2016/04/miguel-cervantes-rip.html

Two Links from Info-Wars

• Trump: Release 9/11 Papers
  Obama working with Republicans to block release of papers showing Saudi complicity
  Kurt Nimmo | Infowars.com - April 19, 2016
  http://www.infowars.com/trump-release-911-papers/
  
  
• Parents Sue School for Forcing Daughter to ‘Convert’ to Islam
  Assignment included lesson which had students recite, "There is no god but Allah and Muhammad is the messenger of Allah"
  Adan Salazar | Infowars.com - February 1, 2016
  http://www.infowars.com/parents-sue-school-for-forcing-daughter-to-convert-to-islam/
  
  
• Honourable mention to Tea at Trianon, great upholder of French Monarchs Louis XVI and Marie-Antoinette (I was in Versailles this night, yesterday visiting a library on "rue de l'Indépendance américaine"), where a post linked to first of above:
  
  The 9/11 Documents
  by elena maria vidal at 1:00 AM | Tea at Trianon - Thursday, April 21, 2016
  http://teaattrianon.blogspot.com/2016/04/the-911-documents.html
  
  And her little twist on it:
  
  

  Since some of us always knew the Iraqis had nothing to do with it.

  
  
  Could Trump have merged the criticism of two different wars, Afghanistan and Iraq?

Tower of Babel and Moon Landing

One debater who thinks no man has landed on the Moon (and who might be or might just possibly not be right, but if not, there are questions about the Allen Belt and if any of those having landed got cancer), made the point:

"God stopped the Tower of Babel but let man land on the Moon? Yeah, right!"

Point is, I am not at all sure Tower of Babel need to have been very much more innocent than landing on Moon.

The text does not say that the council of evil men was:

"let us make a city and a tower, which may reach to heaven"

BUT

Genesis 11:4 ... "let us make a city and a tower, the top whereof may reach to heaven" ...

Now, what is the difference between "a tower reaching to heaven" and "a tower the top of which reaches to heaven"? None if the top remains attached to the tower. But some pretty great one if the top is detachable. If "the tower" was a ramp and "the top" was a kind of rocket.

If Nimrod planned to get way past Moon and over the fixed stars ... well, if so, what God has allowed even if moon landing is true is less than what he was stopping back then.

The thing is, if Göbekli Tepe was the Tower of Babel, it looks very much more like a ramp for rocketry than like a skyscraper.

That is perhaps why the know how was scattered and hence forgotten and why "space exploration" was delayed for some millennia, if my reconstruction about Tower of Babel is the correct one.

Hans Georg Lundahl
Nanterre University Library
St Justin, Philosopher and Martyr
14.IV.2016

Ou, le problème était réglé (ça recommence)

1) Moins drôle : me sabote-t-on mon œuvre? · 2) Le problème à Bibliothèque Universitaire de Nanterre est réglé · 3) Ou, le problème était reglé (ça recommence)

C:\Users\autologon\Downloads\C-14.docx Ce programme est bloqué par une stratégie de groupe. Pour plus d’informations, contactez votre administrateur système. OK

Je vais à deux postes de responsable de la salle.

Dans l'un, la dame dit ne pas aller dans cette salle.

Dans l'autre, on me dit d'abord "on ne sauvegarde pas", j'explique que non, j'avais sauvegardé moi-même, à travers mon courriel, et rouvert le fichier moi-même, ou plutôt essayé de le faire, car "il est bloqué".

La responsable me dit qu'alors c'est que le programme pour l'ouvrir n'est pas installé.

"Je ne peux rien faire pour vous."*

L'excuse est doublement fausse:

• "bloqué par stratégie de groupe" ne veut pas dire "le programme n'est pas installé";
• j'avais créé ce même fichier ici-même et je l'ai même ouvert plusieurs fois, pour en imprimer.

On voit bien que Nanterre Université est un peu de gauche, et qu'elle n'aime pas trop un lecteur extérieur qui est un peu à droite, et dont le projet aussi est un peu à droite, genre créationniste? Ou est-ce que je surinterprète les choses?/HGL

* Je ne garantis pas qu'elle prononçait le "ne".

Mise à jour le lendemain:

Encore une fois, le lendemain de signaler le problème, il est aujourd'hui réglé. Par contre, hier je me suis fais mal rencontrer à la figure et en ouvrant le mail aujourd'hui, l'homme qui me signalait que le problème n'existait pas prenait un ton un peu ... pas totalement poli. Il me reprochait encore de ne pas avoir pris contact avec le personnel dans la salle - en évitant de répondre au mail précis dans lequel j'avais donné le lien ici, où j'avais raconté ma démarche.

Si j'avais au début pas signalé, j'aurais probablement pu arriver le lendemain, surlendemain et ainsi de suite - sans que ce soit réglé.

J'ai l'impression qu'il y ait des gens qui jouent avec moi. Et je n'apprécie pas./HGL

Mise à jour, 29.IV.2016:

Les stratégies de groupe, c'est quoi ?
par Naïma HIZIR
Bienvenue sur le Laboratoire SUPINFO des technologies Microsoft !
http://www.labo-microsoft.org/articles/win/gpo_gpmc/1/

Est-ce que les Créationnistes sont une secte?

Il semble qu'un Australien, séculariste assumé, ait essayé de peindre un groupe créationniste comme un "cult" - ce qu'on désigne en français contemporain comme une "secte".

L'Australien en question est Ian Plimer.

Le groupe en question s'appelait à l'époque "CSF / Creation Science Foundation" et maintenant "CMI / Creation Ministries International".

Les allégations se trouvent dans le livre "Telling Lies for God".

La réponse du groupe (ou une réponse) se trouve ici:

CMI : Addressing a deeply dishonest campaign
http://creation.com/plimer-addressing-a-deeply-dishonest-campaign

En mon propre "résumé" avec ma propre explication (vous pouvez lire la leur en clicquant leur lien), et quand au mensonge qu'ils soient une secte : L'Armée du Salut n'est pas considéré une secte, car ses membres sont souvent (quoique pas obligatoirement) à la fois membres de tel ou tel confession protestante et font parfois leur culte de dimanche ailleurs que dans l'Armée du Salut. CMI a des membres uniquement parmi ceux qui appartiennent à des confessions protestantes et qui font leur culte de dimanche ailleurs. Dans l'un cas comme l'autre, qu'il s'agisse de soutenir les pauvres et de sortir des gens de l'alcoolisme ou qu'il s'agisse de soutenir une création comparablement récente, limité à six jours litérals, et un déluge global, comme je le fais moi-même (et dans le cas de CMI ils ajoutent que ni mêmes les animaux vertébrés terrestres pouvaient mourir avant la chute d'Adam, pour moi-même je suis adogmatique, vu que les Pères sont divisés là-dessus), il y a des gens de diverses confessions qui collaborent pour soutenir la cause. Celle de CMI est soutenue par des gens de très diverses confessions (dans le spectre protestant dit en anglais "Evangelical", ce qui n'est pas synonyme du français "évangélistes", un spectre beaucoup plus restreint que celui du mot "Evangelical" : il n'y a pas d'anglicans "évangélistes" mais il y a bel et bien d'anglicans "Evangelical" - ça s'appelle aussi Basse Église/Low Church, et Cardinal Newman en était avant de, par High Church s'approcher au Catholicisme auquel il va de la suite convertir). Ceci ne serait pas le cas d'une secte, comme on définit le mot sociologiquement de nos jours, car celles-ci contrôlent la totalité de la vie religieuse de ses membres.

Cet essai fait partie d'un dossier appelé:

Plimer Files
[on CMI's site]
http://creation.com/plimer-files

Pourquoi ceci concerne les Français? On n'est pas en Australie, non?

Bon, les Français sécularistes et la majorité des Catholiques (ou soi-disant tels), prennent leur information sur le Créationnisme en grande partie des sources anti-créationnistes du monde anglophone.

Ainsi, Jacques Arnould, l'ex-dominicain qui vient d'écrire (encore dominicain à l'époque) Les Créationnistes, Éditions du Cerf, Paris et éditions Fides, Saint-Laurent (Canada), coll. « Bref », 1996, base partie de son analyse sur le livre de Keating, bon apologète certes pour la Présence Réelle dans l'Eucharistie, mais hélas très biaisé contre créationnisme et géocentrisme, qui donc attribue le créationnisme au calvinisme.

Les faits sont, le Calvinisme aux États-Unis a, dans le 19e Siècle, comme les autres sectes (!) protestantes (j'utilise le mot dans l'acceptation catholique du terme) fait une division entre Modernistes (appelés Liberals) et Tradis, normalement en dehors de la High Church anglicane appelés Fundamentalists. Aux États-Unis, mais seulement là, certains "Fundamentalists" précoces ont en effet été des Calvinistes. Les Catholiques ont fait une division parallèle environ un siècle plus tard.

Bon, à cette époque là, les Catholiques étaient des créationnistes. Le commentaire biblique compilé et complété par George Leo Haydock, prêtre catholique et qui porte le nom d'un autre George Haydock, un des martyrs anglais, est un livre parfaitement catholique (le commentaire sur Jean IV déclare que, comme les Samaritains étaient une secte sans aucune autorité ou légitimité dans l'Ancien Testament, ainsi les sectes non catholiques, notemment les divers Protestants, y compris Anglicans, étaient des sectes sans autorité ou légitimité dans l'ère du Nouveau Testament) et un livre parfaitement créationniste, proche du géocentrisme (le déluge y est universel, en Josué X il ne prend pas partie pour l'explication héliocentrique, quoiqu'il dit que celle-ci ne changerait rien au miracle ... à peu près comme des catholiques conservateurs à propos d'Adam après Humani Generis).

Keating et Jacques Arnould ne disent rien dessus.

En Angleterre, un des premiers adversaires de Darwin n'était pas un Calviniste non plus. Sam Wilberforce, fils de l'abolitionniste, frère d'un converti au catholicisme, aussi biographe de son père, fait le débat contre Huxley. C'est aux États-Unis (un pays dont la souche anglophone est plus calviniste qu'en angleterre) que des pionniers du Fondamentalisme aux États-Unis (plus tard que Sam Wilberforce!) sont des Calvinistes.

Par contre, Jacques Arnould a répandu en France la contrevérité de Karl Keating que le créationnisme a ses racines (comme tel, pas juste aux États-Unis!) dans le Calvinisme. Et il est également à craindre que des gens répandent la contrevérité d'Ian Plimer (aussi séculariste que le Grand Orient ou Mélenchon ... pire que Mélenchon, paraît-il) ici en France, parce qu'il est anglophone et "donc" un expert sur le créationnisme qui serait un phénomène essentiellement anglophone. Autre contrevérité, il semble qu'un Concile à Cologne vient de condamner le livre de Darwin l'année après la sortie (en 1860, donc) et le commentaire Haydock cite abondamment des théologiens entre autres un Flamand ou deux et un Français, sans oublier un Italien.*

Aussi, l'Abbé Haydock meurt en 1849, avant la sortie de On the Origin of Species en 1859, mais Haydock's Catholic Family Bible and Commentary est republié en Nouveau York en 1859. Donc, bien avant les "origines Calvinistes" du Créationnisme aux États-Unis. Malgré les perfidies de Keating là-dessus.

Et le créationnisme n'est pas une secte, c'est une position qui coupe les lignes confessionnelles, précisément comme la position contraire, dite libérale ou moderniste. Malgré les perfidies de Plimer là-dessus.**

Hans Georg Lundahl
BU de Nanterre/Paris X
St. Herménégilde de Seville
13.IV.2016

* Calmet, Worthington (évêque anglais siégeant à Douai et qui envoyait des prêtres catholiques pour se faire martyriser en Angleterre), Challoner (évêque anglais, siégeant à Douai), Menochius, Tirinus, Walker (non précisé, probablement récent), Du Hamel, qui pourrait être Jean-Baptiste du Hamel (je ne trouve pas d'autre théologien appelé tel), St. Augustin d'Hippone, St. Bède, Pierre Lombard, St Bernard, Milton, St. Chrysostome, un Diodore de Tarse, me semble-t-il), un Symmaque, probablement l'Ébionite, l'hérétique Kennicott, Liranus, Claude Fleury, St. Épiphane - pour le fait qu'Adam meurt en pénitence et est donc sauvé, ce qui présuppose qu'il a été un homme réel, pas juste un personnage de par exemple allégorie, genre "un gentilhomme, nommé le Sage-Mondain" (Bunyan), Origène (cité à propos la question si les animaux purs étaient sept individus ou sept pairs, son opinion pour le second est réfuté par Calmet) (eh oui, Origène croyait, semble-t-il ici, dans un déluge réel, quoique St Augustin et St Thomas le citent comme croyant l'allégorie SEULEMENT tandis qu'il faut croire l'allégorie ET l'histoire), St Robert Bellarmin, St Jérôme, Guillaume Estius est cité souvent en chapitre 8, l'hérétique Bochart (pour la lecture "il venait en Assur" dit de Nemrod des trois versets avant plutôt que "venait Assur" dit d'une autre personne, cité comme simple possibilité), Santes Pagnino, OP, et un sigle A., probablement pour "Author" = Monsieur l'Abbé George Leo Haydock lui-même, ceci sont les commentateurs des premiers 11 chapitres de la Genèse. Pas très Américain.

** La raison pourquoi je suis tombé sur Plimer est qu'un créationniste (ou tel à moitié) le cite contre la possibilité de l'Arche de Noé. Avant de consulter CMI sur Plimer, j'ai donné des réponses moi-même : éléphants (comme dinosaures), Noé n'était pas obligé de prendre des exemplaires adultes. Chie de tous les animaux ... Hercule à nettoyé les écuries d'Augée, et autour de l'Arche il y avait davantage d'eau que ça, davantage que la seule rivière utilisée par Hercule.

Some Say Archbishop Lefèbvre Incurred Excommunication "latae sententiae" by unauthorised Episcopal Consecrations in 1988

Canvassing for Election of Bergoglio was, if conclave was even licit in first place (supposing Pope Michael hadn't already been Pope so that conclaves both 2005 and 2013 weren't schismatic like the ones in Avignon prior to Council of Constance, supposing Ratzinger had the right to abdicate, supposing, if he had the right to abdicate, that he was not morally obliged to call a council like Constance rather than a conclave, seeing there were already rival papal lines - Pope Michael, Alejandro IX, and a few more), also a crime the perpetrators of which (far more numerous than the six bishops in 1988) incurred the "latae sententiae" type of excommunication.

Note that the Vatican when claiming to reconcile Society of St Pius X actually in the Motu Proprio LIFTED this penalty of excommunication which Vatican was officially supposing Archbishop Lefèbvre had incurred.

Note that Archbishop Lefèbvre when claiming not to have incurred it was not arguing that was not how the law worked, but that there was another paragraph about "case of necessity" (his real own line of defense), and Michael Davies at least added it also included a heading about "putative case of necessity" (a line he - MD - considered advanceable to those who denied that the case of necessity was real).

So, if "Team Bergoglio" was not in a case of necessity, and it hasn't claimed to have been so, and if "Team Bergoglio" has not had its excommunications lifted, all of those cardinals are excommunicated.

Also, the disposition of "John Paul II" - supposing he was Pope - includes a declaration that the result is to be null and void.

Read more on FromRome: The Myths used to defend Team Bergoglio from UDG 81
Sep30 (2015) by The Editor
https://fromrome.wordpress.com/2015/09/30/the-myths-used-to-defend-team-bergoglio-from-udg-81/

A sign that "John Paul II", though not a canonisable saint, though not a Pope, nevertheless might not be damned : from the grave his words condemn the election of him who falsely "canonised" or pretended to do so himself in 2014./HGL

I was Wrong about GWB's Second War

• TIA : Disconfirmations Disconfirmed: Saddam Had Nuke Program
  Randall Hoven
  Reproduced from the American Thinker, July 6, 2008
  http://traditioninaction.org/HotTopics/e026ht_NukeProgram.html
  
  However, it was the first where I tried to warn him he was in a position to make a just war, but was missing it by the per se unjust ultimatum and by not defending the sixteen Christians a month before 9/11.
  
  
• I already agreed with TIA on this one, basically:
  
  TIA : Total War & the Utopia of Peace
  Lyle J. Arnold, Jr.
  http://traditioninaction.org/HotTopics/e028_TotalWar.html
  
  If I hadn't said in so many words:
  
  

  Referring to the Napoleon wars against almost all countries of Europe to spread the “liberty” of the French Revolution, contemporary author David A. Bell argues: "Although it may seem paradoxical, when man began to believe that warfare was something unnatural and was something that modernity could outgrow or evolve away from, Total War was born."

  
  
  I had however mentioned more than once that Modernity and Modern Western Atheism have Messianic pretentions of ending religious fanaticism and have only founded one more sect and one more prone to cruelty.
  
  
• I simply did not know this story:
  
  TIA : Our Lady of Prompt Succor, a Patroness for Americans
  Marian T. Horvat
  http://traditioninaction.org/religious/a038rpPromptSuccor.html

What are they Saying of Amoris Laetitia?

• 1) Mahound's Paradise : James Carroll (Yes THAT James Carroll) Pens the Best Analysis Yet of Amoris Laetitia and It's Relation to Post Vatican II Catholicism
  http://mahoundsparadise.blogspot.com/2016/04/james-carroll-yes-that-james-carroll.html
  
  
• 2) Ten Reasons for the Marriage Mess
  April 10, 2016 by Fr. Dwight Longenecker
  on Standing on My Head
  http://www.patheos.com/blogs/standingonmyhead/2016/04/ten-reasons-for-the-marriage-mess.html
  
  
• 3) Abbey Roads : A priest comments on Amoris Laetitia ...
  http://abbey-roads.blogspot.com/2016/04/another-priest-who-likes-pope-and.html
  
  
• 4) the the bones that you have crushed may thrill : The Ambiguity of the Amoris Laetitia Reveals Far More than it Conceals
  http://thatthebonesyouhavecrushedmaythrill.blogspot.com/2016/04/the-ambiguity-of-amoris-laetitia.html
  
  
• 5) Vox Cantoris : Pope Francis and his poison!
  http://voxcantor.blogspot.com/2016/04/pope-francis-and-his-poison.html
  
  
• 6) TIA seems not yet to have commented.
  
  
• 7) Dito for DICI.org
  
  
• 8) FromRome : This ‘Amoris Laetitia’ cannot be tolerated in silence
  Apr9 by The Editor
  https://fromrome.wordpress.com/2016/04/09/this-amoris-laetitia-cannot-be-tolerated-in-silence/
  
  

  What many have not noticed is that the entire argument advanced in Amoris Laetitia presupposes that Ecclesiastical Tradition is merely a human hand-me-down, left over from a darker more puritanical age, and that it does not come from Christ nor was it faithful to the Apostolic Preaching.
  
  For this reason, one must say with many others that this document is in toto, heretical. That is represents, from even a brief study of the history of the Pontificate of Cardinal Bergoglio, a manifest and pertinacious attack upon the Church and denial of revealed truths.
  
  It is exceedingly pertinacious, since the Pope received the corrections of numbers of theologians formally and informally, yet still published it.

  
  
  
• 9) The Eponymous Flower : "Revolution" Amoris Laetitia: the — "Pastoral Realignment" of the Church
  http://eponymousflower.blogspot.com/2016/04/rome-pastoral-reorientation-of-church.html
  
  

  Methodology of the imprecise wording
  
  Is the result of the Synod as outlandish as they had expected it? Ultimately, yes. It did, as several high church officials, including Curial Archbishop Georg Gänswein, assured, not come to a startling break. Yet one can clearly deduce the fracture on closer inspection of the details. Therein lies the confirmation of expectations. The changes, the "revolution", the "revolutionary change" (words of Cardinal Kasper) happens when it happens, subtle in inaccurate word sausage formulations. In this respect therefore, there is nothing new under the sun. The method used already on the Second Vatican Council, to dissolve the clarity in the obscurity of the wording, will be continued. The Jesuit Karl Rahner, whose Jesuit brother is the reigning pope, found t language methodology as downright brilliant because it ultimately always allowed whatever reading or interpretation was wanted.
  
  It is the method that revolutionaries, who lack the majority or the armies, wish to impose its will directly and quickly. It is even more the technique of pseudo-revolutionaries who do have radical ideas, but where the final drive is missing, in openly professing the Revolution. The popular theology, whose representative Jorge Mario Bergoglio of Argentina was, and his rejection of the armed struggle of his confreres for Marxist liberation theology offers several approaches to understanding this pontificate.
  
  Utterly irritating, though it was mentioned only in passing, is the largely uncritical "yes, to sex education", pronounced by Pope Francis. Given the experience of school sex education and government "education campaigns", given that the gender ideology wants school sex education to put their stamp on a massive scale, given the appropriate "curricula" of Baden-Württemberg, Vienna or Bavaria, to name just a few, it's a wonder just what "reality" the Pope and his ghostwriter have in mind on this issue.

  
  
  
• 10) Myself? With Vox Cantoris, with Eponymous Flower, with FromRome. So far, though I have not actually read it. But I would be surprised if all having read it were wrong on it offering for divorced and remarried a solution which I cannot consider Catholic. Also, if Rahner, Schönborn and Kasper are for it, I would be surprised if it were good. This is why I am not making a blog post of my own on the matter.

Did Fifty Odd Readers from Elsewhere Make a Pilgrimage to Holy Land?

Yesterday:
042 69 00 41 18 15 47	200 32 0230 02	1400
042 67 52 00 24 47 13	220 25 0470 07	0016
106 75 32 52 21 48 56	360 30 0860 07	1416
045 53 55 47 23 36	230 29 1110 16
104 53 45 67 21	270 20 1400 16
Last 24 h:
Israel 30	Israel 40	Israel 34
Ukraine 11	France 8	Poland 16
France 3	United States 6	United States 16
United States 3		Netherlands 14
China 2		Ukraine 9
Russia 1		Germany 3
Sweden 1		France 2
		Japan 2
		South Korea 1
		Latvia 1
Israel 34	Israel 48	Israel 35
Russia 2	United States 16	Ukraine 17
United States 2	France 7	Russia 4
Netherlands 1	Japan 3	United States 3
Poland 1	Peru 2	Netherlands 2
Romania 1	Germany 1	Japan 1
Ukraine 1	India 1	Poland 1
	Latvia 1	Romania 1
	Netherlands 1
	Poland 1
Israel 37	Israel 38	Israel 45
Ukraine 20	Ukraine 8	Poland 2
Russia 6	United States 5	Ukraine 1
United States 5	Russia 3
Japan 3	France 2
Netherlands 3	Poland 2
Australia 1	Canada 1
Belarus 1	Japan 1
China 1	Romania 1
Spain 1	Saudi Arabia 1
Israel 49	France 4	Israel 49
United States 4		Russia 1
Japan 1
Israel 28	Israel 51	Israel 40
Indonesia 1	Russia 1	United States 4
Japan 1	United States 1	France 2
Netherlands 1		Russia 1
Poland 1		Ukraine 1
Romania 1
Russia 1
Israel 34	Israel 35	Israel 46
Netherlands 7	United States 5	Singapore 1
	Japan 2
	Benin 1
	France 1
	Netherlands 1
	Russia 1
Israel 46	Israel 17	Israel 23
United States 10		Russia 1
Germany 4
Netherlands 2
Russia 2
Japan 1
Thailand 1
Israel 21	Israel 21	Israel 20
	Russia 1	Romania 1
	United States 1
Israel 15	Israel 47	Israel 44
	United States 1	United States 1
Israel 35
France 4
The free use only blogs:
Israel 42	Israel 10	Israel 52
Ukraine 6		Canada 1
United States 1		Romania 1
		Thailand 1

Réponse une année en retard à l'homélie pascale d'un prétendu évêque de Paris

D'abord, la voici:

Homélie du cardinal André Vingt-Trois – Dimanche de la Résurrection – Messe du jour de Pâques à ND
Dimanche 5 avril 2015 - Notre-Dame de Paris
http://www.paris.catholique.fr/homelie-du-cardinal-andre-vingt-36189.html

Citons:

« La foi ne consiste pas à reconnaître les évidences que tout le monde voit, c’est accorder sa confiance à une parole alors que nous ne voyons pas ce que cette parole nous dit. »

À prendre les mots correctement, oui.

Mais la foi devrait normalement être basée sur une base dans laquelle on voit très bien pourquoi on doit croire ce qu'on ne voit pas, si un tel (mais pas un autre) l'atteste.

« Le tombeau vide, cela ne veut pas dire simplement que Jésus a disparu, cela veut dire qu’il est ressuscité. C’est cet acte de foi, « il vit et il crut » (Jn 20,8) qui va être le fondement du témoignage pour se développer progressivement à partir de Jérusalem, et dont nous avons un premier exemple dans le livre des Actes des Apôtres. Pierre arrive dans la maison de Corneille et rappelle le passage de Jésus en faisant le bien dans le pays des Juifs et à Jérusalem. Ils l’ont supprimé en le suspendant au bois du supplice. Dieu l’a ressuscité au troisième jour et lui a donné de se manifester non pas à tout le peuple, mais à des témoins que Dieu avait choisis d’avance. Voilà comment nous comprenons que la manifestation du Christ ressuscité n’est pas un acte de puissance qui obligerait l’intelligence et la liberté humaine à s’incliner sans avoir à adhérer, comme certains quelquefois souhaiteraient que Dieu intervienne dans l’histoire des hommes de telle façon qu’il n’y ait pas lieu de réfléchir ou de discuter. Eh bien précisément, Dieu n’intervient pas dans l’histoire des hommes de façon à leur fermer le chemin d’une adhésion libre et éclairée. Cette adhésion libre et éclairée est rendue possible par le fait que la résurrection du Christ ne s’impose pas par la matérialité des faits mais se transmet par le témoignage des apôtres et de ceux qui les suivent. C’est parce qu’il s’agit d’une parole portée au nom de Dieu que chacun et chacune de ceux qui entendent cette parole ne sont pas obligés de croire, mais sollicités à croire et incités à ouvrir leur propre intelligence et leur propre cœur de façon que ce soit réellement un acte humain complet qui les mette en relation avec le Christ. »

Bien avant de témoigner devant Corneille, St Pierre avait témoigné devant Jérusalem – un Jérusalem qui avait vu la Crucifixion et qui avait pu constater que le tombeau vide avait une explication officielle ou officieuse.

Corneille n’a pas juste entendu les mots de St Pierre, il avait aussi entendu les mots d’un ange – et d’un ange qui le préparait pour un rencontre que le diable n’aurait pas pu garantir. C’est pour ça que le diable préfère la solitude pour ses grandes tromperies – une solitude ensuite souvent échangé en mondanité.

Il a éventuellement aussi su que St Pierre avait une communauté qui témoignait que son propre témoignage le jour de Pentecôte n’était pas un pari peu risqué qui aurait pu être une tromperie, mais une parole qui aurait dû pouvoir être démasquée aussitôt si elle avait été fausse.

L’homme que les gens en communion avec Bergoglio considèrent comme évêque de Paris ne le précise pas.

André Vingt-Trois que je viens de citer semble avoir une étrange définition des mots « adhésion libre et éclairée » comme si les arguments qui ne peuvent pas tromper, qu’on peut ignorer mais pas réfuter, ce qui dans les yeux plus traditionnels et conventionnels constitue une base bonne pour une adhésion éclairée devait manquer pour que l’adhésion soit aussi libre.

Dieu est intervenu dans le monde d’une manière qui est aussi décisive que les gens veulent que le prétendu évêque de Paris considère comme souhaitant qu’il n’y ait pas lieu à réfléchir ou discuter.

Ce sont les négateurs de la résurrection qui ne veulent pas réfléchir et discuter, la plupart du temps (même si je réfute les arguments de certains américains, intrépides athées, je leur dois l’honneur de dire qu’ils constituent une exception honorable). Mieux on analyse les évidences, plus on réfléchit et discute sans passions ou parti déjà pris, mieux l’intelligence humaine est précisément obligée à affirmer le miracle.

En faisant confusion des termes « libre adhésion » avec « adhésion non-obligatoire » (car ce qui oblige l’intelligence peut être quand même libre à faire, parce que la personne n’est pas sous contrainte de la violence en adhérant), André Vingt-Trois fait une petite faveur indu à ceux qui préféreraient ne pas réfléchir, pour ne pas avoir à adhérer à Christ, qui est vraiment Ressuscité.

Je ne vais pas vous épargner les mots juste au début :

« L’événement que nous célébrons aujourd’hui et qui a si profondément infléchi l’histoire de l’humanité, la Résurrection du Christ, a ceci de particulier que personne ne l’a vu, du moins à la façon dont nous concevons aujourd’hui d’être témoin d’un événement, c’est-à-dire de pouvoir fixer sur l’image ce dont il s’agit… Personne n’a vu la résurrection de Jésus ! »

Et les anges, alors ?

Je ne recommande à personne de fonder une religion uniquement sur les mots d’un être angélique ou surnaturel à lui seul. Mohammed, Joseph Smith, Hésiode, autant qui sont tombés dans cette piège. Mais les anges parlant aux femmes, d’abord ce ne sont pas les femmes seules qui ont fondé la communauté du Christ ressuscité, elles n’étaient pas juste une seule, et les mots des anges ont été vérifiés très bien après, quand on a vu, parlé avec, mangé avec, pris des cours d’exégétique vétérotestamentaire avec le ressuscité. Et quand ceux qui en ont témoigné ont pu ressusciter des morts et rendre la vue aux aveugles.

Ensuite, une communauté naissante, celle des Juifs qui nient la Résurrection, n’a pas cessé d’essayer de trouver un conflit entre le message de ceux qui affirment la Résurrection et les Écritures – c’est-à-dire « Moïse, les Prophètes, les Écrivains sacrés, quoi ! » (Tanakh pour Torah, Nabiim, les Ketubim, donc), que nous aussi affirmons être les nôtres. Et ça fait deux mille ans d’échec.

Sur l’invitation de cet André Vingt-Trois, un rabbin vient de réessayer en 2010.

deretour : Rabbi Krygier n'est pas chrétien, dit-on.
http://hglundahlsblog.blogspot.com/2010/03/rabbi-krygier-nest-pas-chretien-dit-on.html

deretour : Rivon Krygier, appelles-tu aussi les léfèbvristes "extrémistes"?
http://hglundahlsblog.blogspot.com/2010/04/rivon-krygier-appelles-tu-aussi-les.html

Et je viens de réaffirmer la conformité des prophéties avec l’accomplissement, contre une accusation bien plus spécifique que celle de Krygier, dans les commentaires de cet article :

deretour : Il était une fois un peuple qui ne servait pas les idoles ...
http://hglundahlsblog.blogspot.com/2009/09/il-etait-une-fois-un-peuple-qui-ne.html

Hans Georg Lundahl
Carrières Saint-Denis
Sainte Marie Cléophas
9.IV.2016

Index XI en français : Chandeleurs à Pâques 2016

Cet index partiel fait partie de la page Index Indicum

En arrière		En avant
Index X, FR - Immaculée Conception 2015 à Chandeleurs 2016		Index XII FR, Pâcques à Très Sainte Trinité, 2016

Bonum festum Sancti Matthiae Apostoli · Précisément, c'était le Dimanche Laetare · Bonum Festum Sancti Patricii · Sanctum et Felix Festum Paschale

Chère Sainte Agathe, Merci!

Créationniste biblique OU scientifique?

Réflexions sur le Site On Te Manipule Point FR : I ) sur "Derrière chaque événement un organisateur caché tu inventeras"

Le sceptique sans principe logique (apparente, au moins)

mâine (hiperlegătură)

Il y en a qui ne veulent pas comprendre

Ex Professeur

Quand je fais de la pub pour CMI, je dis que leur site est en anglais

1) Ça veut dire quoi "blogspot"? 2) C'est quoi un URL? Doit-il être en bon français? Non, mais unique! 3) Non, Daniel Hamiche, leur site n'est pas piraté! 4) Ou peut-être oui?

Abigail Kopf (Liens/Links)

Et s'il avait voulu que je regarde ces articles?

Index XI English : Candlemass to Easter 2016

This partial index is part of the page Index Indicum

Back		On
Index X, ENG - Immaculate Conception 2015 to Candlemass 2016		Index XII ENG, Easter to Holy Trinity 2016

Bonum festum Sancti Matthiae Apostoli · What is a Laetare Sunday in Paris without Tempier? · Happy St Patrick's Day, Texas and District Judge Orlando Garcia! (link) · Bonum Festum Sancti Patricii · As we get close to Good Friday (link, quotes, comment) · Lady Day and Good Friday (link) · Sanctum et Felix Festum Paschale

Dwight Longenecker probably wrong to recommend Bernie Sanders

Some Sedevacantist Popes are Feeneyite - Pope Michael is Not So

Fictitious Diagnoses, like ADHD (link)

Someone Asked WHO Would Buy Books Printed from my Blogs ...

1) New blog on the kid : King James and Mary Tudor, the cat, the dog, the cog 2) Some of the Main Suspects 3) So, am I a suspect, before I go on citing others? 4) Assorted retorts from yahoo boards and elsewhere : ... on Hebrew Gematria for Harry - retort given and withdrawn

So Bergoglio said that of Montini?

Why I Think Humanae Vitae was Heretical

I disagree with Vox Cantoris on One Thing

Nicholas P. Wilde does Not Add up to Number of the Beast - But NICKWILDE Does

ASCII Code or Gematria per nine?

I am not usually saying good things of Ulster Scots, but these men do have some sense on occasion! (link)

Answering Krzystof Charamsa

Principle of limitation? NOMa? What would Augustine say?

mâine (hiperlegătură)

Some people cannot imagine European limits (warning, article contains grossness)

Good News from Palestine! Nativity Church! (Link)

Q posed and diversely A : How Can the Larger Sun Revolve around the Smaller Earth?

Good news on Justina Pelletier front (link)!

1) New blog on the kid : As Someone Said : You Catch More Flies with Honey than with Vinegar 2) Creation vs. Evolution : A Pretty Vile Attack on "Christian Fundamentalists" - but a Parodic One 3) Great Bishop of Geneva! : Apostatic Rejection of "Fundamentalism" in 1994 4) Dwight Makes a Calmer Attack on Catholic Fundies

1) New blog on the kid : GWW got Aristotle and St Thomas wrong. 2) HGL's F.B. writings : What Mechanism? Are "Angelic Movers Outside Natural Sciences"? 3) Φιλολoγικά/Philologica : GWW vs Plato, HGL vs GWW 4) New blog on the kid : Was There No Celestial Mechanics for Tychonian System? Oh, yes! 5) Φιλολoγικά/Philologica : One More Quote, if I May, Please! 6) HGL's F.B. writings : Sungenis Countering Flat Earthers - with Some Lacks in his Argument 7) Φιλολoγικά/Philologica : Any Fathers NOT Supporting Round Earth? Any Authorities that DO support Angelic Movers? 8) HGL's F.B. writings : Debating with Sungenis, Mainly

Abigail Kopf (Liens/Links)

1) In Case Someone Thinks I am Preaching ... 2) Once again, in case ANYONE thinks I am PREACHING ...

Dangerously obsolete?

Commenting on an Article of Al-Bushra

Good Geocentric Blog - NOT by Me.

TOF Spot on Spot here

Why He Doesn't Marry the Girl is, Alas, Obvious

Is Democracy Dying?

OSN : Local Journalist Claims To Be Harassed By Borough Council
http://orangestreetnews.com/2016/03/22/local-journalist-claims-to-be-harassed-by-borough-council/

OSN : Borough Limits Public Comment
http://orangestreetnews.com/2016/04/05/borough-limits-public-comment/

FB Page : Selinsgrove Concerned Citizens
https://www.facebook.com/SelinsgroveConcernedCitizens/

In other words, are elected people becoming a kind of élite, cut off from whom they are supposed to represent? Check out the links!/HGL

Highly Recommended Reading : OSN

Orange Street News
http://orangestreetnews.com/

Starts with a new born child.

OSN : New Baby on Orange Street
http://orangestreetnews.com/2014/12/31/new-baby-on-orange-street/

Faces Pharisees.

OSN : OSN Publisher Responds to Critics!
http://orangestreetnews.com/2016/04/03/osn-publisher-responds-to-critics/

Dear St Matthew, pray for this reporter! Dear St Luke, pray for her! All Holy Gospellers and Hagiographers pray for her./HGL

Spiritual works of mercy:

• To smile at others, to give others flowers, to sing in church, to read inspirational emails, to think happy thoughts, to go to reiki class, to walk a labyrinth?
  
  
• To save the seals, to adopt a dog from a shelter, to save the rainforest, to refuse to wear animal skins, to be a vegan, to give to animal shelters, to have a "Save the Manatees" license plate?
  
  
• To be fruitful and multiply, to love your enemies, to pray, to go to Church, to be nice to others,to respect the dead, to help the poot, to not say anything controversial?

None of above!

• To feed the hungry,
• to give drink to the thirsty,
• to clothe the naked,
• to visit the imprisoned,
• to shelter the homeless,
• to visit the sick,
• to bury the dead.

No, those were the corporeal ones. There are corporeal works of mercy, see above, and there are spiritual works of mercy.

I pick:

• Admonish the sinner,
• instruct the ignorant,
• to counsel the doubtful,
• to comfort the sorrowful,
• to bear wrongs patiently,
• to forgive all injuries,
• to pray for the living and the dead.

I am NOT good at:

to bear wrongs patiently, to forgive all injuries

and no better at admonishing sinners.

How about instructing the ignorant?

Me and Baltimore Catechism:

You are a 96% traditional Catholic! 96% Congratulations! You are more knowlegeable than most modern theologians! You have achieved mastery over the most important doctrines of the Catholic Faith! You should share your incredible understanding with others!

You take the quiz (even if I gave you one answer for free).

On Two Greatest Feasts, I hesitated between Easter and Penteost and Christmas and Easter, which I picked. On Holy Days of Obligation, I may have picked the wrong list, not knowing exactly which ones are so in US.

No, not that one. Changing those gave me only 97%.

Perhaps I should have chosen* Church helps us get to heaven "through good works" instead of "through sacraments"?

Might ask Pope Michael who was raised on Baltimore. I was converting on five other Catechisms./HGL

* Just had to correct from "chosing" to "chosen". Over tired or a hacker? Dunno!/HGL

Somewhat Blocked in China

I was reading this blog post:

Dymphna's Road : saturday thoughts
Saturday, April 14, 2007
http://dymphnaroad.blogspot.com/2007/04/saturday-thoughts.html

Quoting:

I'm so proud. My blog site is blocked in China!

To note:

This test was put in place in 2006, I will later be testing if it still works. It does.

The greatfirewall of China
http://www.greatfirewallofchina.org

From their site, before you look at my test results:

Disclaimer

this version 1.0 may report sites as being 'blocked', while there are only technical reasons for their unavailability. It's greatfirewallofchina.org's aim to collaboratively build a community that will be able to visualize Internet censorship in an increasingly accurate way.

How it works

We?ve opened a website in China and route your url request on greatfirewallofchina.org through to our server in China. The server in China opens the url and the result is send back. Our testing is only based on one server on one location in China. We have different backup servers in different locations in China might one go down.
Other locations and other servers may give you different access to the various websites.

What about blogging?

According to state media, by the end of 2006 there were 20.8 million bloggers in China. Blogging, which implies venting your own opinions, has become immensely popular in China. In order to control the phenomenon the government wants blog users to register under their real name. A resourceful Chinese individual created this loophole: www.adoptablog.org. Adopt a Chinese blog, and help keep these bloggers online - anonymously.

Can the Great Firewall be by-passed by technical means?

Both from within and from outside of China several academics, security experts and hackers are trying to hack the great firewall.
Western academics came up with ways to circumvent the Great Firewall. Results so far are promising, but the question remains how long it will take the Chinese government to come up with counter measures. Another question is if the average person online can easily apply these methods.

Testresults for greatbishopofgeneva.blogspot.com
Beijing FAIL
Shenzhen FAIL
Inner Mongolia FAIL
Heilongjiang Province FAIL
Yunnan Province FAIL
No servers were able to reach your site. This means that your site is most likely NOT accessible from within mainland China.


Testresults for creavsevolu.blogspot.com
Beijing FAIL
Shenzhen FAIL
Inner Mongolia FAIL
Heilongjiang Province FAIL
Yunnan Province FAIL
No servers were able to reach your site. This means that your site is most likely NOT accessible from within mainland China.


Testresults for notontimsblogroundhere.blogspot.com
Beijing FAIL
Shenzhen FAIL
Inner Mongolia FAIL
Heilongjiang Province FAIL
Yunnan Province FAIL
No servers were able to reach your site. This means that your site is most likely NOT accessible from within mainland China.


Testresults for hglundahlsmusik.blogspot.com
Beijing FAIL
Shenzhen FAIL
Inner Mongolia FAIL
Heilongjiang Province FAIL
Yunnan Province FAIL
No servers were able to reach your site. This means that your site is most likely NOT accessible from within mainland China.


Testresults for hglundahlsblog.blogspot.com
Beijing FAIL
Shenzhen FAIL
Inner Mongolia FAIL
Heilongjiang Province FAIL
Yunnan Province FAIL
No servers were able to reach your site. This means that your site is most likely NOT accessible from within mainland China.

Testing the test outside my sites:


Testresults for www.nytimes.com
Beijing FAIL
Shenzhen FAIL
Inner Mongolia FAIL
Heilongjiang Province FAIL
Yunnan Province FAIL
No servers were able to reach your site. This means that your site is most likely NOT accessible from within mainland China.


Testresults for creation.com
Beijing OK
Shenzhen OK
Inner Mongolia OK
Heilongjiang Province OK
Yunnan Province OK
All servers were able to reach your site. This means that your site should be accessible from within mainland China.

Oh, that is news!

Back to my blogs:


Testresults for triv7quadriv.blogspot.com
Beijing FAIL
Shenzhen FAIL
Inner Mongolia FAIL
Heilongjiang Province timeout
Yunnan Province timeout
No servers were able to reach your site. This means that your site is most likely NOT accessible from within mainland China.


Testresults for nov9blogg9.blogspot.com
Beijing FAIL
Shenzhen FAIL
Inner Mongolia FAIL
Heilongjiang Province FAIL
Yunnan Province FAIL
No servers were able to reach your site. This means that your site is most likely NOT accessible from within mainland China.


Testresults for correspondentia-ioannis-georgii.blogspot.com
Beijing FAIL
Shenzhen FAIL
Inner Mongolia FAIL
Heilongjiang Province FAIL
Yunnan Province FAIL
No servers were able to reach your site. This means that your site is most likely NOT accessible from within mainland China.


Testresults for hglsfbwritings.blogspot.com
Beijing FAIL
Shenzhen FAIL
Inner Mongolia FAIL
Heilongjiang Province FAIL
Yunnan Province FAIL
No servers were able to reach your site. This means that your site is most likely NOT accessible from within mainland China.


Testresults for antimodernisminmemoriam.blogspot.com
Beijing FAIL
Shenzhen FAIL
Inner Mongolia FAIL
Heilongjiang Province FAIL
Yunnan Province FAIL
No servers were able to reach your site. This means that your site is most likely NOT accessible from within mainland China.


Testresults for filolohika.blogspot.com
Beijing FAIL
Shenzhen FAIL
Inner Mongolia FAIL
Heilongjiang Province FAIL
Yunnan Province FAIL
No servers were able to reach your site. This means that your site is most likely NOT accessible from within mainland China.


Testresults for recipesfromhomeandabroad.blogspot.com
Beijing timeout
Shenzhen FAIL
Inner Mongolia FAIL
Heilongjiang Province FAIL
Yunnan Province FAIL
No servers were able to reach your site. This means that your site is most likely NOT accessible from within mainland China.


Testresults for avantlafermeturedantimodernism.blogspot.com
Beijing FAIL
Shenzhen FAIL
Inner Mongolia FAIL
Heilongjiang Province FAIL
Yunnan Province FAIL
No servers were able to reach your site. This means that your site is most likely NOT accessible from within mainland China.


Testresults for hglhaiku.blogspot.com
Beijing FAIL
Shenzhen FAIL
Inner Mongolia FAIL
Heilongjiang Province FAIL
Yunnan Province FAIL
No servers were able to reach your site. This means that your site is most likely NOT accessible from within mainland China.


Testresults for vivlijohrafika.blogspot.com
Beijing FAIL
Shenzhen FAIL
Inner Mongolia FAIL
Heilongjiang Province FAIL
Yunnan Province FAIL
No servers were able to reach your site. This means that your site is most likely NOT accessible from within mainland China.


Testresults for premierequintedupel.blogspot.com
Beijing FAIL
Shenzhen FAIL
Inner Mongolia FAIL
Heilongjiang Province FAIL
Yunnan Province FAIL
No servers were able to reach your site. This means that your site is most likely NOT accessible from within mainland China.

Testing other blog, where blogger prophile says Guangzhou, China:


Testresults for almostparadisse.blogspot.com
Beijing FAIL
Shenzhen FAIL
Inner Mongolia FAIL
Heilongjiang Province FAIL
Yunnan Province FAIL
No servers were able to reach your site. This means that your site is most likely NOT accessible from within mainland China.

Also profile Guangzhou, China:


Testresults for bomanda-marriageandamove.blogspot.com
Beijing timeout
Shenzhen FAIL
Inner Mongolia FAIL
Heilongjiang Province FAIL
Yunnan Province FAIL
No servers were able to reach your site. This means that your site is most likely NOT accessible from within mainland China.

Note that the provinces here given do not list Guangzhou, China.


Testresults for inodm.blogspot.com
Beijing FAIL
Shenzhen FAIL
Inner Mongolia FAIL
Heilongjiang Province FAIL
Yunnan Province FAIL
No servers were able to reach your site. This means that your site is most likely NOT accessible from within mainland China.

Here the blogger is actually a Chinese person. "Hello friend, this is Avril from China."

China seems very wary of blogs in general. Perhaps meaning outside Guangzhou, China, Guangdong, China.

I must note that what I know about academic literature on "internet addiction" is a small research of references I did, and it led back to a study in China.

That study was in fact conducted about people doing gaming (Warhammer and similar things) 20 hours or more per week, and as that would normally not be possible in either a work or study week on only normal hours, that basically means they were gaming per night and sacrificing sleep to do so.

The bad effects noted from "internet addiction" were probably the bad effects of sleep privation. If you game over 20 hours per week while not being professionally involved in it and paid for it, you sacrifice sleep to do it.

But instead of even labelling the thing "gaming addiction" (which some follow up has done), one has labelled it "internet addiction", as if writing 20 hours per week on normal working hours would have same effects. Psychiatry is meanwhile dishonest and Paris region is indebted probably to Chinese psychiatry and certainly to Chinese filters. The French are so proud of being above Catholic faith, but they are not above superstitions like Chinese internet filters of that Chinese label if "internet addiction". Meaning they are acting on what could just as easily be Feng Shui as science.

Note that the investigation about "internet addiction" was made in 2009, after the words above about blogging.

Going back to my own blogs now:


Testresults for scdquintedupel.blogspot.com
Beijing FAIL
Shenzhen FAIL
Inner Mongolia timeout
Heilongjiang Province FAIL
Yunnan Province FAIL
No servers were able to reach your site. This means that your site is most likely NOT accessible from within mainland China.


Testresults for mnquintedupel.blogspot.com
Beijing FAIL
Shenzhen FAIL
Inner Mongolia FAIL
Heilongjiang Province FAIL
Yunnan Province FAIL
No servers were able to reach your site. This means that your site is most likely NOT accessible from within mainland China.


Testresults for quartequintedupel.blogspot.fr
Beijing FAIL
Shenzhen FAIL
Inner Mongolia FAIL
Heilongjiang Province FAIL
Yunnan Province timeout
No servers were able to reach your site. This means that your site is most likely NOT accessible from within mainland China.


Testresults for dernierequintedupel.blogspot.com
Beijing FAIL
Shenzhen FAIL
Inner Mongolia FAIL
Heilongjiang Province FAIL
Yunnan Province FAIL
No servers were able to reach your site. This means that your site is most likely NOT accessible from within mainland China.


Testresults for repliquesassorties.blogspot.fr
Beijing FAIL
Shenzhen FAIL
Inner Mongolia FAIL
Heilongjiang Province timeout
Yunnan Province FAIL
No servers were able to reach your site. This means that your site is most likely NOT accessible from within mainland China.


Testresults for assortedretorts.blogspot.fr
Beijing FAIL
Shenzhen FAIL
Inner Mongolia FAIL
Heilongjiang Province FAIL
Yunnan Province FAIL
No servers were able to reach your site. This means that your site is most likely NOT accessible from within mainland China.


Testresults for gmb1lou.blogspot.fr
Beijing FAIL
Shenzhen timeout
Inner Mongolia timeout
Heilongjiang Province FAIL
Yunnan Province FAIL
No servers were able to reach your site. This means that your site is most likely NOT accessible from within mainland China.


Testresults for danskantimodernism.blogspot.fr
Beijing timeout
Shenzhen OK
Inner Mongolia OK
Heilongjiang Province OK
Yunnan Province OK
All servers were able to reach your site. This means that your site should be accessible from within mainland China.

So, if you are Chinese, can speak Swedish and do note reside in Beijing, at least, you may read my Swedish (and Danish) blog.

Some comfort!


Testresults for aufdeutschaufantimodernism.blogspot.com
Beijing OK
Shenzhen OK
Inner Mongolia OK
Heilongjiang Province OK
Yunnan Province OK
All servers were able to reach your site. This means that your site should be accessible from within mainland China.

Wow, even true for German! And that even in Beijing!


Testresults for enfrancaissurantimodernism.blogspot.com
Beijing OK
Shenzhen timeout
Inner Mongolia timeout
Heilongjiang Province OK
Yunnan Province OK
All servers were able to reach your site. This means that your site should be accessible from within mainland China.

If you read Spanish, Italian, Latin or are interested in my stories and poems even in English or French (except the haiku above), you can (so far) enjoy that from China.


Testresults for morphologialatina.blogspot.com
Beijing OK
Shenzhen OK
Inner Mongolia timeout
Heilongjiang Province OK
Yunnan Province OK
All servers were able to reach your site. This means that your site should be accessible from within mainland China.

My knowledge of Latin morphology (plus my preferences for compressing the space paradigms take on paper) is timeouted in Inner Mongolia, but accessible elsewhere.


Testresults for litaviskkulturhistoria.blogspot.fr
Beijing FAIL
Shenzhen FAIL
Inner Mongolia FAIL
Heilongjiang Province FAIL
Yunnan Province FAIL
No servers were able to reach your site. This means that your site is most likely NOT accessible from within mainland China.


Testresults for trogetochgratis.blogspot.fr
Beijing FAIL
Shenzhen FAIL
Inner Mongolia FAIL
Heilongjiang Province FAIL
Yunnan Province FAIL
No servers were able to reach your site. This means that your site is most likely NOT accessible from within mainland China.


Testresults for trentophilaret.blogspot.fr
Beijing FAIL
Shenzhen FAIL
Inner Mongolia FAIL
Heilongjiang Province FAIL
Yunnan Province FAIL
No servers were able to reach your site. This means that your site is most likely NOT accessible from within mainland China.

Another GOOD news, but outside my own blogs:


Testresults for redcardigan.blogspot.com
Beijing OK
Shenzhen OK
Inner Mongolia OK
Heilongjiang Province OK
Yunnan Province OK
All servers were able to reach your site. This means that your site should be accessible from within mainland China.

I thought this one might have been blocked in China, because it was earlier blocked in Georges Pompidou Library. Can China have unblocked when Georges Pompidou did? Or is their filter somewhat independent of the Chinese firewall? I don't know.

Hans Georg Lundahl
Nanterre University Library
St Vincent Ferrer
5.IV.2016

Someone got it wrong on Crisis Mag?

Look here:

The war against interest was a war against basic economic logic. Present goods are more valuable than future goods, so it makes sense that the person who wants something earlier rather than later, but doesn’t have the money now, is likely to pay a premium. Further, lending is always risky so it makes sense that there should be a reward attached to undertaking that risk. Finally, money that is lent out is not otherwise employed by the owner and therefore there is an opportunity cost that will be paid and compensation for this sought. For all these reasons and many more, interest is a normal part of peaceful commercial society.

To understand this, it is helpful to consider the case of barter in a desperately poor society. Let’s say you have two chickens but only need one. A fellow comes along and wants the other one but has no money. He offers a potato – a pretty shabby deal overall for straight one-for-one trade. But, even so, you want him to have the chicken and you aren’t currently in need, so you propose a deal. He can have it if he gives you some eggs from the chicken for a period of one month. After that, he can have the chicken.

You are happy. He is happy. Everyone wins. But why the egg premium? He wanted the chicken now and you didn’t need it now. So he pays to feed his more urgent need, and you are glad to relinquish control of your chicken provided there is a stream of income coming out of it. This is the way interest works in a barter economy. True, there is no money involved but the principle is the same as that which is considered a normal part of commercial life today.

Catholics and “Usury”: A Tragic History
Jeffrey Tucker
November 16, 2011
http://www.crisismagazine.com/2011/catholics-and-usury-a-tragic-history

No, the real rationale for the eggs during a month premium is this:

• the eggs are the price for the chicken.
• "your" rationale for accepting that price despite being able to just keep the chicken and get the eggs anyway is that that way you don't have to feed it. You get rid of a responsibility earlier.

And the transaction is a sale, not a loan. And it is only just if the just price of the chicken corresponds somewhat to the just price of the eggs.

AND, if it had been a loan, there would still have been a great difference between lending some restaurant owner or baker a few chicken for a month in return for some of the eggs and then getting the chicken back and lending him a sum of money for a month and both getting paid for keeping it a month and getting the sum paid back is this: money is not fruitful.

The introduction of money to the story changes nothing of moral substance. This is because money is nothing but a proxy for goods.

Because it is a proxy, it is consumed while using it.

It is comparable to an egg, not to a chicken.

You can lend a chicken, get it back and get some eggs for it. Because the chicken is a living useful tool, not an object of direct consumtion.

But you cannot lend eggs, get them back later and get paid even more eggs than you lent while waiting. Therefore not money either.

It was the neo-Thomists who started the process unraveling traditional teaching and cleared the path for the full legitimization of interest. The first great strides were made by Conrad Summenhart (1465-1511), the chair of theology at Tubingen. He began to make exceptions to the strict doctrine. He wrote that money itself is fruitful, a good that can be bought and sold like any other.

It can be bought and sold, precisely like objects of consumption. But it is not fruitful like livestock or tools.

Tubingen has since had some theological troubles.

When a money holder lends, he is giving up something that would be otherwise profitable, so he should be compensated for his loss, same as any merchant.

That compensation does take place in the future.

By getting the money back.

It can even take place in the present, by getting an IOU. In that case the IOU can be used as money and someone else will be getting the money back when the loan is up.

There is a severe equivocation here, a man giving up money now in order to have it a year later is treated as if he had been a lifetime owner of a sum of money while giving up a year's use of that sum. No. As soon as anyone uses money, he ceases to own it. So, what he is giving up is not a year's actual continual use of it, as with a chicken, but a series of potential occasions during a year to use the money momentarily. In return he gets a new series of occasions to use it (or parts of it) momentarily after the year, of which he would have definitely deprived himself if he had actually kept the money that year and used it on the last day concerned, or if he had used it even earlier than that.

Moreover, Summerhart said, it is helpful to think of the money paid in exchange for lending services as a different good from the money itself – that is, possibly, as a gift given to the lender as a sign of appreciation.

St Thomas insists that gifts given by receiver of a favour to appreciate it, as gifts, must be voluntary and when the favour is money, non-monetary.

The next and final step in the liberalization of interest was taken by Thomas De Vio, Cardinal Cajetan (1468-1534). He was the leading Catholic theologian of his day, a favorite of the Pope, and a defender of Catholicism against Martin Luther. His writings represented the most sophisticated of his time as regards economics. He completely endorsed Summenhart’s teaching and took it a step further to say that any loan contract was legitimate if both the borrower and the lender agreed to it in anticipation of some economic benefit. He carefully took apart St. Thomas’s own writings on the topic and demonstrated that it was perfectly just for the lender who is giving up use of his property to charge a service fee in exchange.

Service fee is one thing.

Council of Lateran, the Vth, had endorsed precisly a service fee or processing fee.

BUT, I would like to have the details about Cajetan.

What Lateran V says* is, if where usury is legal, in order to give poorer investors an alternative to loan sharks, a municipality offers loans that do not charge that interest, it can charge as great an interest as is absolutely needed for keeping up the bureaus processing the transactions, giving a moderate wage to the clerks that process it, but it would do much better to charge interest for only half the processing cost (wages to clerks, keeping localities clean) and to pay the other half out of municipal either taxation or income from municipal property.

So, it would be surprising if a private owner lending someone property were to have the right to a processing fee, since that private owner would hardly need a processing clerk, would hardly be in the business of doing mainly that type of transaction.

Post offices are ideal bank keepers in so far as they can pay processing of loans partly on gain from post mail.

John Noonan’s book on the scholastic doctrine on usury chronicles all these changes with incredible precision, and provided the source text that other scholars of economic doctrine such as Murray Rothbard have used in their own writings.

I wonder if the book has not quoted one thing or two out of context. Like quoting Cajetan's objections instead of his later own solution to problem. This is an aspect of scholastic writings that is sometimes missed. I have heard that someone of Vienna school did that about free price imposition rather than price regulations - and he quoted from a Jesuit of Salamanca who, after detailing all arguments for free price imposition, actually decides against and for price regulations being at least licit and in cases of too wild pricing meritorious from the side of the state.

I will ask Thomas Storck or John Médaille about it.

Hans Georg Lundahl
Nanterre University Library
St Isidor of Sevilla
4.IV.2016

* Read it, don't just take my word for it:

En lengua romance en Antimodernism y de mis caminaciones : Lateranense V Concilii Sessio X
http://enfrancaissurantimodernism.blogspot.com/2012/04/lateranense-v-concilii-sessio-x.html

If you can't read Latin, learn, so you won't have to take my word for it next time!