Monday, 7 November 2016

When Urban VIII set a good example to Montini

Found an old draft, and had not added source before leaving it aside. Here is the quote with presumable source, without checking all 47 pages of the pdf:

Carter/Sarfati: Later, Galileo was encouraged in his work by Pope Urban VIII at first a close friend, but they later became bitter enemies after Galileo insulted him by putting the Pope’s words in the mouth of Simplicio (the fool) in a book that argued against geocentrism.

R. Sungenis: This is a myth unsupported by the history. There is no documentation stating that Urban VIII censored Galileo because he felt insulted (and this fact is confirmed by many Galileo historians, which are available in my book for review). Rather, the documented history shows that Urban VIII was in protracted discussions with the archduke of Tuscany to stop Galileo because Galileo was “teaching heresy.” Galileo was first condemned 16 years earlier in 1616 by Pope Paul V, for the same reason – that heliocentrism was against Scripture, so the stage had already been set for Urban VIII to follow through, which he did by declaring heliocentrism a formal heresy. Paul V told Galileo never to teach or write on heliocentrism again, which Galileo disobeyed when he started to write his new book in 1623, hoping that Urban VIII would accept it, but he didn’t, and his decision was based on what Paul V had determined before him, not on being miffed by Galileo.

Presumable source :R. Sungenis & M.Selbrede Respond to Robert Carter Re Geocentrism

Two points :

  • 1 – in 1616 Galileo was not condemned or even suspect. His book was. Or one book was - I recently read The Assayer was from 1623, therefeore posterior to 1616. It is possible Galileo was just called as expert witness about someone else's book was condemned.

    Here is wiki for 1616 in science:


    • Galileo challenges the Catholic Church, saying Copernicus' heliocentric theory of the Solar System is correct. On February 24 he is forbidden to speak of Copernicus's theories. Tommaso Campanella writes The Defense of Galileo.

    • March 5 – Copernicus' De revolutionibus orbium coelestium (1543) is forbidden by the Congregation of the Index for reading "until corrected" (this is done in 1620: nine sentences, in which the heliocentric system is represented as certain, have to be either omitted or changed).

    Either way, Galileo certainly had the opportunity to actually defend Heliocentrism scientifically before Saint Robert Bellarmine, which is not shown here.

    This - that Galileo was himself not suspect of heresy or condemned - was testified by St Robert Bellarmine after Galileo had had to deal with people misrepresenting the affair.

  • 2 – if in any way, shape or form Urban VIII had felt insulted by Galileo’s use of his words putting them in the mouth of Simplicio, that may be the very reason why the Pope himself was not attending the investigation and judgement of Galileo (this time his own person, not just a book) which is a good example for Popes to follow either in any case where they would have to apply for a kind of indult or dispensation, or where the Pope happens to be the suspect.

    If « Paul VI » had been Pope, this is how he could have dealt with the accusation dossier brought before him against himself by Fr. Georges de Nantes.

    « OK, I am supreme judge, so I am to judge this, at same time I am accused, so I am not to judge this »

    He could have added « Eureka, I can name judges, who therefore judge in my name and with my authority, as long as I shall be considered Pope, and therefore appear as accused, so to speak taking time off ... »

    He didn’t. He asked Italian police to cross the border of the Vatican state and get Fr. Georges de Nantes out of the way.

This anecdote about Fr. Georges de Nantes and Montini, I have from Pope Michael (civil name David Bawden).

I am not sure if I'll find the video soon, but when, I'll add link.

Hans Georg Lundahl
Nanterre UL
St Prosdocim of Padua*

* Patavii depositio sancti Prosdocimi, qui fuit primus ejusdem civitatis Episcopus. Hic, a beato Petro Apostolo Episcopus ordinatus, ad praedicandum Dei verbum ad praedictam civitatem missus est; ibique, multis virtutibus et prodigiis coruscans, beato fine quievit.

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