Wednesday, 16 August 2017

Certains n'osent pas commenter?


Peut-être le blogueur dont le profile s'appelle "blogger" a prétendu que j'enlève des commentaires que je n'aime pas.

J'ai effectivement enlevé pas mal des siens, allons voir pourquoi:

http://nov9blogg9.blogspot.fr/2017/04/is-john-horvath-ii-calvinist-or-fan-of.html?showComment=1502171994712#c6479028054164113886

Par contre, quand il s'agit des commentaires propres au sujet d'un message, je communique, sous les messages d'autres, comme ici:

http://biblesmack.blogspot.fr/2010/03/case-for-waldenses-ancient-origin.html

Ou sous mes propres messages:

http://nov9blogg9.blogspot.fr/2015/07/how-big-is-kepler-452-geocentric.html

Et quand je fait un off topic pour me promovoir moi-même, je demande des excuses ou suis au moins poli:

https://practical-parsimony.blogspot.fr/2017/07/i-found-rock.html

Chicky Mama n'a pas enlevé mon commentaire, parce que, j'imagine, j'ai été poli.

Non, si certains n'osent pas commenter sous mes messages (tant que je reste libre et ayant accès à mes blogs), ce serait plutôt par peur de me donner l'occasion de les réfuter encore plus complètement, j'imagine./HGL

Spero heri habuisse bonum festum Assumptionis


lectores Christifidelibus.

Ego minus bonum habui festum, et non potui accedere cauponam cybernaticam./HGL

Friday, 11 August 2017

.... Dialogue imaginé sur mon discours de carbone 14


J'ai un autre blog avec des dialogues réels en français et d'autres choses en réponses à d'autres, voici un dialogue imaginaire avec des lecteurs./HGL

... À moins de supposer que d'autres méthodes nous permettent de mesurer d'autres périodes encore plus longues, genre des millions d'années, il n'y a pas de raison réelle de supposer que carbone 14 nous permette de mesurer jusqu'il y a 40 000 ans. En âge réelle, bien entendu. La date carbonique 40 000 ans avant le présent peut très bien se référer à une date réelle d'il y a 5000 ans.

À savoir le Déluge, survenu en 2957 avant Jésus-Christ, 4974 avant le présent ...

(Interposition d'un lecteur doué pour les maths:)

"Mais ça c'est une erreur d'un facteur de 8! C'est une erreur assez importante, quand même!"


Cher lecteur, juste d'un facteur de 8? C'est modeste par rapport à une autre erreur à la base. On suppose que le taux atmosphérique était à l'origine environs 100 % du taux actuel. Bon, le taux de carbone 14 dans l'atmosphère, relatif au taux beaucoup plus grand de carbone 12. Les pourcentages sont du taux relatif actuel, pas en relation direct avec carbone 12 (car le taux est de moins d'un % d'un % d'un % actuellement). S'il était réellement de 2 %, c'est une erreur d'un facteur de ... voulez-vous m'aider?

(Même lecteur):

"Un facteur de 50! Pourquoi pas le même facteur?"


Ah, excellente question! En fait, il s'agit d'ajouter 38 000 ans en années postiches. On enlève pour le taux d'origine la moitié, et avec ces 50 % juste on a 5730 ans de plus. On enlève la moitié de ça, restent 25 % à la deuxième dimidiation, ce sont 11 mille 460 ans ajoutés. Troisième dimidiation, on est à 17 mille 190 ans de plus pour 12,5 % (ici on a un facteur de 8, mais les années se décalent de 4,456 uniquement). On dimidie le taux encore une fois, à 6,25 % le facteur erroné est de 16 fois dans la supposition, les années ajoutées sont 22 mille 920, on est à 27 mille 894 avant le présent au lieu des réelles années 4974.

Si le taux est de 6,25 %, on se trompe donc de 16 fois en le supposant 100 %, et la mesure d'âge calculée à partir de ça est de 5,6 fois.

Prochaine dimidiation, un taux de 3,125 %, l'erreur sur le taux d'origine est d'un facteur de 32, l'erreur sur l'âge sur un très modeste ...

"... facteur de 6,76!"


... facteur de 6,8. Et la prochaine dimidiation, un facteur de 64 pour le taux d'origine; à savoir 1,5625 %. Et l'erreur sur l'âge est de presque 8.

"Bon, l'erreur dans l'âge est alors modeste pour ce même âge par rapport à l'erreur d'origine, mais alors celui-ci est encore plus important!"


Oui.

"Vous n'allez pas me dire qu'ils sont capables de se tromper d'un facteur de 64!"


Si.

"Mais ils ont leurs mesures!"


Oui, sur le taux restant, un peu plus que 0,79 %. Ce qui ne précise pas combien du décalage est dû à un faible taux d'origine, et combien à la décomposition radioactive du taux d'origine.

"Donc, un échantillon de 50 % restants pouvait être d'hier et avoir un faible taux d'origine?"


En certains cas, genre mollusques, oui, en général, non.

"Ah, alors le taux d'origine doit être de 100 % - normalement."


Pour un taux restant de 80 %, oui. C'est il y a moins de 2000 ans, c'est bien datable. Pour un taux restant de 50 % (hormis les cas spéciaux, genre mollusques) plutôt non. Genre, réellement il y a 5730 ans, c'est avant le Déluge. Ça se daterait quasi à 40 mille ou 50 mille ou 60 mille ans avant le présent. Si ça date carboniquement à 5730 ans avant nous, la date réelle est probablement de 4 mille ans et quelque avant nous, des siècles entre Babel et Abraham. Et le taux d'origine d'un peu plus que 80 % du taux actuel.

(Autre lecteur:)

"Mais alors vous présumez que le taux atmosphérique soit monté régulièrement, qu'il n'y a pas eu d'importantes hausses ou rechutes?"


En effet, même à part l'optimum, il y a des raisons pourquoi une seule montée semble plus logique que plusieurs, à part vacillations mineurs.

"Lesquelles?"


L'atmosphère en elle-même est un échantillon. Son taux baisse par décomposition radioactive, normalement constante, parfois peut-être hâtée par radioactivité accrue. Son taux monte par la production du nouveau carbone, proportionnelle à l'atmosphère qui est exposée aux rayons cosmiques, et à leur intensité.

"Mais s'ils étaient très intenses?"


S'ils étaient trop intenses, on mourrait. On peut bien supposer qu'à un moment ou même une période donnée, même prolongée, ils étaient vingt fois plus intenses qu'avec notre taux constant (ou à peu près) depuis 2000 ans et davantage.

"Mais pourquoi? Vingt fois plus de radiation paraît pas très sain ..."


Vingt fois plus de radiation cosmique n'est que deux fois la radiation totale par terre, car le taux moyen de la radiation totale sur la Terre est dix fois plus grand que le taux de radiation cosmique à une hauteur moyenne.

"Et vous supposez que la production du nouveau carbone est linéairement proportionnelle à l'intensité de la radiation?"


Je le suppose en effet. Elle pourrait à priori être proportionnelle au carrée ou à la racine de la radiation, il y a des rapports qui le sont ... reste à vérifier, mais je ne vois pas pourquoi, j'ai supposé comme théorie de départ que non.

(Premier lecteur, mal à l'aise:)

"Je vois que rien peut vous convaincre que vous avez tort!"


Plutôt qu'il n'y a ce qui soit apete à le faire dans cette question.

(à suivre?)

Thursday, 10 August 2017

Saturday, 29 July 2017

Charlie Gard died, I read.


Doctors decided his death, basically killed him, at least cut off the life support they had provided - and stopped parents from getting another one, from someone else.

Another baby died in Belgium. Parents were sued for involuntary homicide - for not doing what the doctors would have done. I think the father is in prison, now.

Is the European law for those killing deliberately and against those killing involuntarily?

No, it is more simply for doctors and against parents. In other cases, for doctors and against patients.

Are doctors forming a new tyranny? I am afraid so.

Hans Georg Lundahl
Torcy
St. Olav, King and Martyr
29.VII.2017

See also:

The Magician's Twin: C.S. Lewis and the Case against Scientism
CS Lewis
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FPeyJvXU68k

Half Medieval Outfit / Vêtu moitié médiéval


Merci pour un délicieux repas et pour la photo!

Friday, 28 July 2017

Roosevelt and Nimrod


Mark Shea connected to an article on Trump's speech before Boy Scouts.

The article quoted another speech by Roosevelt:

“When you go out into life, you have come to understand that the individual in your community who always says ‘I can’t’ or ‘I won’t’ or ‘I don’t,’ the individual who by inaction or by opposition slows up honest, practical, far-seeing community effort, is the fellow who is holding back civilization and holding back the objectives of the Constitution of the United States,” Roosevelt said.


Those who have followed what I have been saying about Tower of Babel, rocketry, Göbekli Tepe on the blogs Philologica and Creation vs Evolution, those of you who have will know that I think this is about what I think Nimrod was saying about the family and little tribe of Heber and his son Peleg.

Nimrod thought the "tower" - I think the Biblical words could describe a three step rocket meant to bring us to "the stars" and above - was civilisation and the objectives of the mankind state in Shinar (with outliers rather than colonies elsewhere).

Nimrod thought that those refusing to participate, perhaps on excuses like "it's against God who created us and saved us from the Flood", perhaps on other excuses when that didn't help, were indeed:

"the individual in your community who always says ‘I can’t’ or ‘I won’t’ or ‘I don’t,’ the individual who by inaction or by opposition slows up honest, practical, far-seeing community effort"


And that is why Nimrod made himself a "mighty hunter before the Lord", i e a slave hunter.

Wonder why Mark Shea was so much more irate about the speech of Trump than about that former speech by Roosevelt?

Hans Georg Lundahl
Suresnes / Puteaux
Sts Victor I Martyr
and Innocent I Confessor, Popes
28.VII.2017

Update : links to the blogs added/HGL

Wednesday, 26 July 2017

Norway and Poland


There was a Norwegian journalist who complained about a law change in Poland:

VGNyheter : Omstridt lov godkjent i Polens overhus
http://www.vg.no/nyheter/utenriks/omstridt-lov-godkjent-i-polens-overhus/a/24102328/#xtor=CS6-6-[24102328%20omstridt_lov_godkjent_i_polens_overhus]


There was another Norwegian, not a journalist, at least by profession as traditionally seen these days, who reacted to this, with these words:

IS JUST DISGUSTING,THAT NORWAY CRITIC POLAND,SICK AND DISGUSTING,NORWAY DONT RESPECT ANYTHING,DONT HAVE FAIR JUSTICE,CORUPTION IS OVERFLOW,THIS YEAR THEY WILL GO 9 TIMES TO EUROPEAN HUMAN RIGHTS COURT BECAUSE THEY DONT RESPECT THE LAW,THEY DONT USE JUSTICE IN NORWAY,THEY ABUSE THE JUSTICE AND KIDNAP CHILDREN ,3 CONTINENTS PROTEST AGAINST NORWAY LAST YEAR BECAUSE THEY DONT USE FAIR JUSTICE,SO THEY SHOULD BE ASHAME TO CRITIK OTHER COUNTRY REGARDING JUSTICE


So much for Nordic countries being set forth as an example./HGL

Friday, 21 July 2017

Nanterre U


Normalement, un ordi s'arrête à cause d'une prise débranchée ou en partie, il peut être remis assez vite.

Aujourd'hui non, et ce précisément quand j'étais en train de faire une réponse à un défi qu'on m'avait posé contre la chronologie biblique. À propos Champollion et Égyptologie.

Le texte se trouvait sur un bloc-notes, et il ne sera pas là si la session ne peut pas être ré-initié, ce qui ne sera normalement pas le cas demain.

Dommage que la volonté manque de m'ouvrir la boîte de l'ordinateur pour la remettre à clef, comme on fait d'habitude.

Peut-être que quelqu'un qui avait utilisé des privilèges d'administrateur avait vu que je me sortais trop bien, qu'il me fallait donc arrêter, probablement en se disant "il a besoin de repenser", ou peut-être encore pour me donner une leçon à propos les jambes pas totalement contrôlés de manière consciente et rationnelle (mon pied était emmêlé au cordon quand j'ai fait un geste demi-conscient par confort), mais en réalité, c'est vexatoire. Il y a des égyptomanes qui n'aiment pas que la chronologie égyptienne (qui contredit celle de la Bible) soit remise en cause, il y a des pédagogues qui n'aiment pas quand j'argumente trop fort.

Ceci est bien-sûr spéculatif. Mais derrière la parfois grande cordialité, il y a eu aussi des isolation sociales, notamment à propos mon créationnisme.

Et je n'aime pas trop que ce soit un vieux qui commence à briser la silence et ceci avec un argument totalement bidon, qui a l'air d'être mis en place pour documenter (comme s'il y avait besoin) que je sais ne pas me faire embobiner. Il a certes été poli, il a certes montré des cordialités, comme de m'offrir des cafés, dans le passé et aussi ce matin.

Mais quand il s'agit d'argumenter, je préfère argumenter, pas être mis à des interminables épreuves et vexations. D'être interminablement obligé à recommencer un ouvrage. J'écris comme freelance érudit - je n'aime pas être lu comme "un cas à étudier". Et j'aime trop ce que je fais pour simplement chercher un autre endroit pour écrire (vu que je me trouve exclu de Georges Pompidou depuis 2014, désolé, 2015) au risque de ne pas le trouver, ou pour chercher autre chose à faire./HGL

Voir aussi: Russian Readers Leading, Again!, Carbon Dated Egyptology? Coffin Club didn't want to tell How Much!

Tuesday, 11 July 2017

Answering Ken Cole


Here is what there is to be answered:

Ken Cole’s Disproof of Geocentrism
http://www.biblicalcatholic.com/apologetics/GeocentrismDisproved.htm


Scientific Disproof of Geocentrism: How Newton’s laws prove that the earth orbits the sun by Ken Cole

  • Section A

    • Premise (A1): Newton developed his physical laws, which form the basis of orbital mechanics. These equations include his second law of motion: F=m*a and his law of gravitation: (Gravitational Force)=G*m1*m2/(radius)^2.

    • Premise (A2): Since Newton formulated his laws, they have always been verified by the motion of objects travelling much slower than the measured speed of light. There has never been an observable case where Newton’s laws did not hold for objects travelling much slower than the measured speed of light.

    • Premise (A3): In order for Newton’s laws to correctly predict motion in the solar system, gravitational forces from all massive bodies must be correctly taken into account by scientists. Gravitational force according to Newton is directly related to mass. Gravitational force is also directly related to and varies according to a spacecraft’s distance from each of these bodies as seen in G * m1 * m2 / (radius)^2 from (A1). (These massive bodies include the sun, Earth, moon, planets, etc.) The sum of these gravitational forces equals the “F” in F=m*a.

    • Premise (A4): Scientists send spacecraft (which travel much slower than the measured speed of light), and have done so multiple times, through the solar system using Newton’s laws with exact precision. Such spacecraft include Voyager 2, Pioneer 10, and the Apollo moon missions. In other words, the spacecrafts’ motion, as described by the “m*a” in F=m*a, was correct or true.

    • Premise (A5): Given (A1), (A2) and since the motion of the spacecrafts were true (A4), then the scientists’ calculation of the solar system’s bodies’ gravitational forces (A3) must also be true.

    • Conclusion (A): Scientists possess a correct and accurate understanding of each body’s gravitational force in relation to the spacecraft and, consequently, a correct understanding of each body’s mass.


  • Section B

    • Premise (B1): Geocentrism places Earth in the center of the solar system, and all other bodies (including the sun) rotate around Earth.

    • Premise (B2): According to Newton’s laws, less massive objects orbit more massive objects.

    • Premise (B3): If (B1) is true, then (B2) predicts that the Sun is less massive than the Earth.

    • Premise (B4): But Conclusion (A) is proven true, and scientists understand that the Sun is more massive than the Earth.

    • Premise (B5): Given (B4), then either geocentrism (B1) is false or Newton’s laws (B2) are false.

    • Conclusion (B): Either the geocentric view is incorrect or Newton’s laws are incorrect.


  • Section C

    • Premise (C1): But (A2) is true.

    • Premise (C2): Bob Sungenis’ definition of proof is that “...explanations must be direct, observable, physical, natural, repeatable, unambiguous and comprehensive.”

    • Premise (C3): (C2) defines (A2) as proof that Newton’s laws are correct.

    • Premise (C4): Given (C3) and Conclusion (B), then (B1) is false.

    • Conclusion (C): Geocentrism is false, and Newton’s laws are true. Newton’s laws then correctly predict that Earth orbits the Sun.


  • Summary Notes:

    Basically, the idea behind Section A of this proof is that we know Newton’s Laws are right since we’ve successfully sent spacecraft through the solar system -- we know how gravity works. We know that very massive objects have a greater gravitational pull than less massive objects. Particularly of note: Newton’s Laws squarely contradict Geocentrism. In order for the moon to orbit the earth, for example, the earth has to be much more massive than the moon. That’s the only way the earth can create a big enough gravitational pull to “hang on” to the moon.

    That is why the earth can’t be the center of the universe according to Newton’s Laws: the earth would have to be more massive than every other object in the universe, so it could have a big enough gravitational pull on to “hang on” to everything. Robert Sungenis wants to believe that Geocentrism and Newton’s Laws pleasantly coexist, but Section B of this proof clearly shows that either Newton is right or Geocentrism is right.

    Section C of this proof shows that by Robert Sungenis’ own standard of “proof,” Newton’s Laws are true and Geocentrism must be false.


Not going into the debate with Sungenis here.

My answer is on another plane. ALL of Newton's laws predict results of such and such type ONLY if one presumes the factors taken into account are the only relevant ones.

Take a globe the size of Earth. For example, Earth. Take another globe like a socker ball, or beanshaped object like a rugby ball (I often say my blog is of all subjects except socker, and this is really not about socker, I am using it for an illustration, or about rugby either). Let's say it is a rugby ball or a socker ball.

Include corresponding masses. Include one globe or beanshaped object lying on another globe, namely sport asset on Earth.

Newton's laws predict it will be staying there - unless there are other factors, like players.

And neither Cole nor Robert Sungenis in replying has taken into account that angelic beings, presumably good unfallen angels, could be moving all celestial bodies - they would be acting out a role analogous to the socker or rugby players.

Hans Georg Lundahl
Nanterre UL
Pope St Pius I
Martyred under Marcus Aurelius
11.VII.2017

One Good Thing with Fundie Muslims


They are the ones to take the Quran sufficiently seriously to be able to get (back) to Christianity for reading one verse of the Quran:

I Left & Rejected Islam & Muhammad Because of One Verse in the Quran - Testimony
The Endless Love of Jesus Ministries
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=at8i1tB60Yk


I am after only 55 seconds very sure the man, during his 16 years as a Muslim, was a very Fundie one.

I am also rather certain, if he had been a liberal Muslim, he would still be a liberal Muslim. That one Ayah of one Surah would not have been all that important to him.

If I had been a liberal Protestant, I would not have become a Catholic. I would not have been trying to get absolution for exactly one mortal sin committed the year before I decided to seek out a priest for conversion. I might not even have categorised it as mortal sin, I might have been caught up in something more psychoanalytical or sth./HGL

Donc de Rugby ...


Je viens de dire de temps en temps que ce blog traite "de tous les sujets sauf le foot". Un homme très sympa à St Nicolas du Chardonnet est joueur de rugby, et en ayant entendu la description, il conclut : "donc de rugby".

Et je lui raconte (un des dimanches passés) cette histoire qui se trouve "sur mon blog", mais jusqu'à présent pas sur celui-ci, mais sur son prédécesseur comme blog général, et en anglais - voici avec traduction française et coupé de la discussion pour laquelle je la racontais:

Triviū, Quadriviū, 7 cætera : When a Thought Ceases to be Believable to You, You should Cease to Think It.
http://triv7quadriv.blogspot.com/2012/03/when-thought-ceases-to-be-believable-to.html


I also believe that a baby was saved by the action of a few angels: one café owner could not roll in his canvas one friday or saturday evening, same weekend a baby falls from very high onto that canvas, bounces, and is saved by a rugby player passing by. Je crois aussi qu'un bébé fut sauvé par l'action de quelques anges : un proprio du café ne pouvait pas reduire la bâche sur l'entrée un Vendredi ou Samedi soir (plutôt samedi), le même weekend (plutôt dimanche) un bébé tombe de très haut dans la bâche, rebondit, et est sauvé par un joueur de rugby qui se promène.

Not sure anymore if the player was a rugby player or other sportsman (ok, nearly sure it was precisely a rugby player), but it was in Paris and it was in the papers. In order to believe in angels you need not see one, you need only count the number of angels involved in the saving of that baby: one preventing the café owner from succeeding, another prompting him not to stay too long trying, a third prompting the stroll of the rugby player, and the guardian angel of the baby prompting the fall to happen the right moment for baby to be saved and for parents to get, for free except a little scare, a lesson about how to screen off the balcony properly. Plus sûr si le joueur était un joueur de rugby ou autre sportif (bon, presque sûr que c'était précisément un joueur de rugby), mais c'était à Paris et ce fut dans les journaux. Pour croire les anges, on n'a pas besoin d'en voir un, on n'a qu'à commpter les anges impliqués dans le sauvetage de ce bébé : un empêchait le proprio du café d'entrer la bâche, un autre le poussait à ne pas trop longtemps rester et essayer, un troisième mène le joueur de rugby en promenade, et l'ange gardien du bébé le mène à tomber précisement dans le bon moment pour qu'il soit sauvé et pour que les parents reçoivent, gratuitement à part un peu de peur, une leçon de bien encadrer le balcon.

And we can begin to count the holies connected to Paris: rue de Bac, St Vincent of Paul (body preserved from decomposition), St Genevieve (body preserved till French revolution, ashes thrown into La Seine), St Clotildis, and a few more. Et nous pouvons commencer à compter les saintetés connexes à Paris : rue de Bac, Saint Vincent de Paul (et le corps préservé de décomposition), Sainte Geneviève (corps préservé à la Révolution française, les cendres jetées dans la Seine, Sainte Clotilde et encore quelques.

A week or two earlier or later, a baby was killed in Versailles. A demon showed itself, six persons or so fled through the window instead of using holy water or rosaries. And one baby there was killed falling out of that window. The demon did not kill it directly, but by showing itself and inspiring fright - and fright of a kind that sound Catholics in a state of grace, using the Rosary and Holy Water would never have been too apt to fall into. Une semaine ou deux avant ou après, un bébé fut tué à Versailles. Un démon s'est montré, six personnes ou quelques se sont réfugiées par la fenêtre au lieu d'utiliser d'eau benites ou rosaires. Et un bébé fut tué en tombant de la fenêtre. Le démon ne l'a pas tué directement, mais en se montrant et en inspirant de la peur - et une peur qu'un bon catholique en était de grâce, utilisant le Rosaire et d'eau benite n'aurait jamais été prône de choper.

There too you can start counting the demons: who kept that father off going to Mass, who kept those youngster ignorant of the existence of demons and of how to confront them, but you will be able to find some of the demons in the politics of this poor country, leading to a corps of teachers that do not transmit faith because they do not have it, because one who has it does not become part of that corps but takes a job at a Catholic school or not at all in teaching. Là aussi on peut commencer à compter les démons : qui retint le père de fréquenter la Messe, qui retint les jeunes ignorant de l'existence des démons et des moyens pour les confronter, mais on sera capable à trouver des démons dans la politique de ce pauvre pays, conduisant un corps d'enseignants à ne pas transmettre une foi qu'ils n'ont pas, parce que celui qui l'a ne devient pas partie de ce corps, il préfère prendre un boulot à une école catholique (hors contrat) ou pas du tout dans l'enseignement.

But when I say you can count the angels or demons apparently involved, I do not mean I saw any of them, nor anyone else did except they who saw the demon who frightened the poor family out of the window. I do not mean atheists will admit angels or demons were involved either. But I do mean that the position of atheists becomes pretty weak in face of cases like these.  Mais quand je dis que je peux compter les anges ou les démons apparemment impliquéd, je ne veux pas dire que j'en ai vus, ni que quiconque l'autre les ait vus à part le démon qui mettait la pauvre familles en peur et par la fenêtre. Je ne veux pas dire que des athées vont admettre que les anges ou démons étaient impliqués non plus. Mais je veux dire que la position des athées devient assez faible en face des cas comme ceux-ci.


Autres trucs de rugby : je me rappelle une nuit dans une des petites villes de la Dordogne, comme je pense que c'était, un maire m'a accueilli dans la locale de rugby, et les joueurs m'ont fourni un excellent repas, y compris bière et dessert.

Ce joueur de rugby à St Nicolas, lui aussi était généreux.

Et ce n'est pas de lui que je parle en disant qu'un fidèle de la paroisse m'avait suggéré que Kent Hovind était Talmudique, comme de quoi j'ai répondu ici:

So, if by Talmudic positions of Kent Hovind some guy at St Nicolas du Chardonnet was referring to his being Young Earth Creationist, that guy should quit reading Dominic Venner and start reading Catechism of Pope St Pius X (which is explicitly Young Earth Creationist and which at least is compatible with Geocentrism).


Creation vs. Evolution : I have been Asked if Kent Hovind didn't have Talmudic Positions?
http://creavsevolu.blogspot.com/2017/07/i-have-been-asked-if-kent-hovind-didnt.html


Si, donc, par "positions talmudiques de Kent Hovind" quelque mec à St Nicolas du Chardonnet se référait au fait qu'il est créationniste jeune terre, ce mec devrait cesser de lire Dominic Venner et commencer de lire le Catéchisme de St. Pie X (qui est explicitement créationniste jeune terre et au moins compatible avec le géocentrisme).

Et en plus, "ce mec" n'est donc pas le joueur de rugby. Celui-ci ne m'a pas fait des mauvais propos comme ça.

Si je ne suis pas joueur de rugby moi-même, au moins un joueur de rugby est parmi ceux que j'admire grandements : John Ronald Reuel Tolkien est en effet un joueur de rugby dans sa jeunesse, avant le mariage et la Grande Guerre, qu'il rejoint en 1916.

C'est à peu près ce que j'ai à dire sur le rugby ...

Si par contre vous parlez du rugby social, j'en ai vu des exemples avec des plaquages* assez en faute. Comme de présenter le créationnisme comme une influence non catholique (quelqu'un d'autre à la paroisse), comme autre truc, dans un groupe d'égyptologie:

HGL's F.B. writings : 1 Carbon Dated Egyptology? Coffin Club didn't want to tell How Much! 2 Coffin Club as Mute as a Grave on my Question 3 Third time over?

Certains font tout pour saboter pas juste les débats dans une groupe, mais par refus d'information, de rendre quelqu'un handicapé en des débats dehors ce groupe aussi - pour le cas précis que le débat s'agit du créationnisme!

J'imagine qu'un joueur du rugby classique s'en prend la tête ...

Hans Georg Lundahl
BU de Nanterre
St. Pie I, Martyr
à Rome sous Marc-Aurel**
11.VII.2017

* Mon français est nul, j'ai dû vérifier le mot! Heureusement qu'un écrit ça vous dérange moins que si je l'avais cherché en conversation. ** Romae sancti Pii Primi, Papae et Martyris; qui martyrio coronatus est in persecutione Marci Aurelii Antonini.

Monday, 10 July 2017

You can't rely on this in Paris


The Hoods : Baking with Sunshine
http://jaredandmeganhood.blogspot.com/2017/04/baking-with-sunshine.html


Unlike Tanzania, Paris had soaking rain this morning. Believe me! I was there (I am in Nanterre now, about 30 km West of Paris).

Unlike Tanzania, in Paris you can't rely on sunshine for baking or cooking food.

Some people think globalist. It would be exaggerated to say the present globalist régime reason in these exact terms:

"solar ovens don't work in Paris. Therefore we can't let people rely on them anywhere, not even in Tanzania."

But there are minds who want solutions for everywhere and always only, to which local solutions and temporary solutions basically stink, and if they are not attacking solar ovens in Tanzania, they are doing similarily absurd decisions where they do have power.

Hans Georg Lundahl
Nanterre UL
Seven Martyr Sons of Felicitas
10.VII.2017

Sunday, 9 July 2017

Friday, 7 July 2017

Parfois il y a d'occasions d'avoir stimulance intellectuelle même en français


New blog on the kid : Parfois il y a d'occasions d'avoir stimulance intellectuelle même en français · Répliques Assorties : Les âmes ou non des étoiles et des planètes · En quora sur l'héliocentrisme · Existe-t-il une expérience ou une observation prouvant que la Terre tourne autour du Soleil ?

Je viens juste de faire un troisième message sur le blog Répliques Assorties, au thème de réfuter l'héliocentrisme et des thèmes connexes.

Je vais ici brièvement résumer les trois messages:

  • on ne peut pas directement vérifier si les corps célestes ont des âmes, ni y a-t-il des preuves scripturaires très décisifs pour ceci-même, par contre, on peut très bien penser que les corps célestes sont mu par des êtres angéliques, par des anges;

  • l'acceptation de l'héliocentrisme a entrainé les sciences dans une réaction en chaîne qui conduit entre autres à un Univers trop vieux pour la chronologie biblique, moyennant les distances stellaires prouvées par la parallaxe en cas d'héliocentrisme vérifié, ou plutôt donc considérées prouvées par le phénomène connu comme parallaxe par ceux qui prennent l'héliocentrisme pour vérifié;

  • et il n'y a pas de preuve décisive qui prouve que l'héliocentrisme est vérifié, vrai, sûr.


Après, suivre les liens!/HGL

Thursday, 6 July 2017

Boubakeur and taqqiya? Perhaps not ...?


GalliaWatch on Simone Veil's death:

In a spectacular example of Islamic taqqiya, the mufti of the Paris Mosque, Dalil Boubakeur, said:

- France has lost a figure such as History offers few. She will remain for all the face of a Republic on its feet, humane, generous. (He praised) the fight this great lady led for the liberation of women, and her desire to promote women of the Muslim faith.”


Perhaps one of the problems with Muslims in France is that, while they might despise women who abort, and are known to have done so, they might not all be against abortion as such. And not just by gratitude for Socialism, also by ... moral relativism in Islam. Pragmatism.

Here is the article I quoted from:

GalliaWatch : Simone Veil (1927 - 2017)
http://galliawatch.blogspot.com/2017/07/simone-veil-1927-2017.html


I can believe Boubakeur misses Simone, his son is (or his father is?*) leader of the French professional corps of Doctors. They are not pro-life./HGL

PS, next day : wonder if the 17 views spread out over "all" my blogs (or fewer ones) from Islamic countries have anything with sn seeing this post.

Also, it is perhaps significant that 5 hours ago I had a reply on a very old thread, by a ... man from a Muslim country or culture:

Assorted retorts from yahoo boards and elsewhere : ... Geocentrism, Social Reactions + Try at Debate
http://assortedretorts.blogspot.com/2017/04/geocentrism-social-reactions-try-at.html


Well, Muslims trying to debate me! Are we getting somewhere?/HGL

* I heard it years ago! I think father was in mosque and son among doctors, but if it was reverse, I have an excuse.

Russian Readers Leading, Again!


I Russia 36 blogs of 37, 6345 views in a week
355+12+355+190+21+268+833+314+68+103+191+12+71+209+20+442+63+42+21+21+21+20+42+101+85+167+509+376+42+229+229+8+273+18+4+610

II United States 32 blogs, 889 views
79 +1 +1 +23 +5 +17 +5 +6 +23 +261 +8 +4 +3 +4 +3 +6 +4 +2 +2 +105 +13 +85 +8 +13 +8 +28 +67 +5 +6 +10 +62 +16 +6

III France 20 blogs, 454 views :
52 +7 +1 +9 +6 +2 +14 +90 +1 +3 +117 +1 +9 +1 +11 +13 +81 +2 +30 +4

IV Germany, 18 blogs, 155 views :
65 +5 +6 +12 +2 +15 +5 +6 +2 +2 +11 +8 +1 +4 +1 +6 +3 +1

V Ukraine, 10 blogs, 110 views :
20 +34 +1 +1 +1 +3 +20 +4 +1 +25

VI Japan, 11 blogs, 98 views :
11 +2 +2 +5 +1 +3 +9 +43 +1 +19 +2

VII United Kingdom, 8 blogs, 68 views :
4 +5 +10 +1 +8 +3 +4 +33

VIII Ireland, 18 blogs, 64 views :
19 +1 +2 +2 +10 +10 +1 +1 +1 +1 +1 +5 +1 +2 +1 +1 +4 +1

IX Hungary 4 blogs, 41 views
5 + 31 + 2 + 3

X Poland, 4 blogs, 24 views :
1 +18 +4 +1

XI Netherlands 14 blogs, 23 views
1 +1 +2 +1 +1 +2 +2 +1 +2 +1 +6 +1 +1 +1

XII Denmark, 8 blogs, 21 views
3 +3 +2 +3 +3 +3 +3 +1

XIII United Arab Emirates 3 blogs, 17 views
13 +3 +1

XIV China 4 blogs, 11 views :
4 +1 +4 +2

XV Spain 7 blogs, 10 views :
2 +3 +1 +1 +1 +1 +1

XVI Romania 3 blogs, 8 views :
2 + 2 + 4

XVII Belgium 3 blogs, 8 views :
2 + 1 + 5

XVIII Brazil 5 blogs, 7 views :
2 + 1 + 1 + 2 + 1

XIX Sweden 3 blogs, 6 views :
2 + 1 + 3

XX Australia 4 blogs, 5 views :
1 +2 +1 +1

XXI, semel, bis, ter
Serbia 4 views on one blog
Turkey 4 views on one blog
Indonesia 4 views on one blog

XXIV Italy 2 blogs, 3 views
1 + 2

XXV, semel, bis
Czechia 2 views on one blog
Panama 2 views on one blog

XXVII, quinquies
Austria 1 view on one blog
Argentina 1 view on one blog
Benin 1 view on one blog
Switzerland 1 view on one blog
Portugal 1 view on one blog

Seems like a pattern of Russian readers up - other readers down. Like Russians telling partners elsewhere : "shove aside, we do the reading". Obviously not everyone elsewhere (so far) is their partners, but some are, it seems./HGL

Update the day after:

Let's compare a blog, "last week" = last six days of week in above stats + last 24 hours after them, "last 24 hours" = only after them:



Russia went away, didn't she?

And now the new stats:

France 14 blogs, 95 views :
4 + 6 + 11 + 2 + 1 + 1 + 8 + 13 + 22 + 2 + 9 + 7 + 1 + 8

United States, 25 blogs, 192 views :
6 + 1 + 2 + 2 + 2 + 4 + 1 + 2 + 6 + 14 + 3 + 2 + 58 + 2 + 2 + 2 + 1 + 1 + 3 + 61 + 1 + 3 + 10 + 2 + 1

China 2 views on two blogs:
1 + 1
Once with Singapore 1 view on one blog
And once with Hong Kong 1 view on one blog

South Korea 1 view on one blog

Russia 51 views on 6 blogs:
1 + 1 + 5 + 21 + 21 + 2
= about 18 times less than a medium 24 h period of previous week.

Ukraine 16 view on 4 blogs:
7 + 3 + 4 + 2

Poland 2 views on one blog

Spain 3 views on one blog
Brazil 2 views on one blog
Portugal 3 views on one blog
Colombia 2 views on two blogs
1 + 1

United Kingdom 19 views on 7 blogs :
2 + 2 + 1 + 7 + 1 + 4 + 2

Australia 2 views on one blog

Muslim countries 17 views:
Morocco 1 view on one blog
United Arab Emirates 10 views on two blogs:
1 + 9
Algeria 2 views on one blog
Indonesia 1 view on one blog
Bosnia & Herzegovina 1 view on one blog
Turkey 2 views on one blog

Could it be because of this:
Boubakeur and taqqiya? Perhaps not ...?
http://nov9blogg9.blogspot.com/2017/07/boubakeur-and-taqqiya-perhaps-not.html


Netherlands 3 views on two blogs:
1 + 2

Germany 10 views on four blogs:
1 + 1 + 1 + 7

Ireland 1 view on one blog

Sweden 2 views on two blogs:
1 + 1

India 7 views on one blog.

In total just 432 views - what tends to happen when Russia has had its watch, goes away after being discovered, and leaves./HGL

PS, again!

I just wondered whether this interest on my blogs could have anything to do with the dialogue on FB which started July 1:

HGL's F.B. writings : Carbon Dated Egyptology? Coffin Club didn't want to tell How Much!
http://hglsfbwritings.blogspot.com/2017/07/carbon-dated-egyptology-coffin-club.html


Especially since one part of the dialogue, the answer of Youri Volokhine and my replies to it, has disappeared./HGL

Update, he had simply blocked my profile. Therefore I could recover the exchange from my other one. Now, Russia seems to want to remain hidden : 14 Jul 2017 13:00 – 21 Jul 2017 12:00, 336 page views on lots fewer blogs. If there had been no coordination, how come all of the blogs had great readership in Russia at the same time and most of them lack it today, this week, as they seem to have done since above comment?/HGL

Russia, 22 Jun 2017 – 21 Jul 2017 : 7236 views =

12 + 16 + 193 + 21 + 2 + 279 + 1036 + 378 + 68 + 105 + 210 + 12 + 76 + 266 + 20 + 603 + 63 + 44 + 21 + 21 + 22 + 20 + 44 + 104 + 91 + 208 + 970 + 410 + 369 + 50 + 231 + 283 + 9 + 302 + 20 + 4 + 653.

7236 is much more than 4 to 5 times 336, right? More than 21 times as much. But a month is not 21 weeks, just 4 to 5, closer to 4 weeks. Coordination, especially when you look at multiples of 21 involved : 21, 42, 63, 84, 105, 126, 147, 168, 189, 210, 231, 252, 273, 294, 315, 336 (oh, yea, all of previous week!), 357, 378, 399, 420, 441, 462, 483, 504, 525, 546, 567, 588, 609, 630, 651 ... 1036 is 49*21+7. The total, 7236 is 344*21+12./HGL

Tuesday, 4 July 2017

Chesterton Spot On!


[Continuing 4th of July celebration from previous:]

Well, by itself, that is hardly news. Chesterton lifted a pen, and he was usually spot on. He is lifting no more pens since his death in 1936, so most occasions or perhaps even all on which he was spot on are already discovered.

The newsworthy thing is a particular new circumstance proving Chesterton was spot on back then. Or if not new, at least newly discovered. Here is the old writing:

As an instance to sharpen the argument, I take the one case of our everlasting education bills. We have actually contrived to invent a new kind of hypocrite. The old hypocrite, Tartuffe or Pecksniff, was a man whose aims were really worldly and practical, while he pretended that they were religious. The new hypocrite is one whose aims are really religious, while he pretends that they are worldly and practical. The Rev. Brown, the Wesleyan minister, sturdily declares that he cares nothing for creeds, but only for education; meanwhile, in truth, the wildest Wesleyanism is tearing his soul. The Rev. Smith, of the Church of England, explains gracefully, with the Oxford manner, that the only question for him is the prosperity and efficiency of the schools; while in truth all the evil passions of a curate are roaring within him. It is a fight of creeds masquerading as policies. I think these reverend gentlemen do themselves wrong; I think they are more pious than they will admit. Theology is not (as some suppose) expunged as an error. It is merely concealed, like a sin. Dr. Clifford really wants a theological atmosphere as much as Lord Halifax; only it is a different one. If Dr. Clifford would ask plainly for Puritanism and Lord Halifax ask plainly for Catholicism, something might be done for them. We are all, one hopes, imaginative enough to recognize the dignity and distinctness of another religion, like Islam or the cult of Apollo. I am quite ready to respect another man’s faith; but it is too much to ask that I should respect his doubt, his worldly hesitations and fictions, his political bargain and make-believe. Most Nonconformists with an instinct for English history could see something poetic and national about the Archbishop of Canterbury as an Archbishop of Canterbury. It is when he does the rational British statesman that they very justifiably get annoyed. Most Anglicans with an eye for pluck and simplicity could admire Dr. Clifford as a Baptist minister. It is when he says that he is simply a citizen that nobody can possibly believe him. But indeed the case is yet more curious than this. The one argument that used to be urged for our creedless vagueness was that at least it saved us from fanaticism. But it does not even do that. On the contrary, it creates and renews fanaticism with a force quite peculiar to itself. This is at once so strange and so true that I will ask the reader’s attention to it with a little more precision.

From G.K. Chesterton : The New Hypocrite
gkcdaily.blogspot.fr/2017/07/the-new-hypocrite.html


The new circumstance proving him right is this : in Turkey it seems teaching evolution has recently been forbidden.

In most of Europe it is forbidden to teach (sometimes even in private schools, paid by the parents!) that there is a scientifical alternative to evolution, a bunch of scientific observations and arguments made in support of Creationism or of Genesis 1 to 11.

In US, fairly uniquely, there are states where teaching creation science along evolution is actually allowed.

And even there, there are states where it isn't, in public schools.

This is just one example of how Evolution is a religion. And also an example of how in these days U. S. of America is special in a good way.

Hans Georg Lundahl
Nanterre UL
St Ulrich of Augsburg
or US Independence Day
4.VII.2017

Happy 4th Mr. President


And really best wishes for doing sth for Charlie Gard!

Charlie Gard, again


The Parents of Charlie Gard were Going to Take him to US, with Own Money · Charlie Gard, again

Restore DC Catholicism : Who's Not Speaking For Baby #CharlieGard ?
http://restore-dc-catholicism.blogspot.com/2017/07/whos-not-speaking-for-baby-charliegard.html


On the list of people not speaking up against the hospital was "Catholic Mobilizing Network To End the Use of the Death Penalty".

I wondered. Mark Shea would belong to that, would he have been saying sth on his own?

Searching Charlie Gard on Catholic and Enjoying It
http://www.patheos.com/blogs/markshea/?s=charlie+gard


Makes one wonder, a bit./HGL

Monday, 3 July 2017

Saturday, 1 July 2017

"Je suis pas du tout créationniste"


Et de là (et du fait qu'un des quatre blogs était sur créationnisme jeune terre) le mec perdait tout intérêt de regarder les autres trois blogs. Celui-ci (url voir en haut), filolohika.blogspot.com et gmb1lou.blogspot.com.

La théorie de l'évolution, en France, ne survit pas sur une bonne niveau scientifique et des rhétoriques et avances en présence médiatique sur les créationnistes. En France, elle prospère grâce à une idée trop flou du cas scientifique et d'un quasi monopole contre les créationnistes./HGL

PS, si ce n'était pas clair : ce monopole soutenu par préjugé massif./HGL

The Parents of Charlie Gard were Going to Take him to US, with Own Money


The Parents of Charlie Gard were Going to Take him to US, with Own Money · Charlie Gard, again

Why not let them do so?

The hospital may not believe in the experimental treatment they were going to give him, but the parents want to give it a try.

So, medicine is about saving lives, not about stopping parents from saving lives elsewhere. The parents ask exactly one thing : to let them transport him to US.

I signed, of course.

Here is the Petition: Petition to: Great Ormond Street Hospital
Petition to Save Charlie Gard: 10-month-old sentenced to death at London hospital
http://citizengo.org/en/lf/71800-petition-save-charlie-gard-10-month-old-sentenced-death-london-hospital?m=5&tcid=36984133


Hans Georg Lundahl
Paris V
Feast of the Most Precious Blood
1.VII.2017

Updates:

(1) A comment about the condition was posted here:

Who's Not Speaking For Baby #CharlieGard ?

Citing:

Baby Charlie has a hopeless condition---mitochondrial depletion syndrome.


Makes me wonder what the proposed treatment is?

If baby Charlie was born in a 3rd world hospital where there weren't the resources or money for such treatments, such decisions would not be necessary. Baby Charlie would pass peacefully shortly after birth, maybe even beautifully in his mothers arms.


Makes one wonder about what medical progress is now leading to./HGL

2, news, here:

Charlie Gard case heads to UK court in light of new evidence
https://www.mail.com/int/scitech/health/5344728-charlie-gard-case-heads-to-uk-court-light-evidence.html


Hope the experiment is not involving any killing of others .../HGL

Thursday, 29 June 2017

I am NOT into Illuminati, NOR into Spammers


I don't know if this is an Illuminato camouflaging as a spammer or a spammer camouflaging as an Illuminato, which is very likely.

I do know I don't like this kind of attention. Here:

Not Supporting Canada Herein


Vox Cantoris : Ontario Court of Appeal to hard case of Christian father
http://voxcantor.blogspot.com/2017/06/ontario-court-of-appeal-to-hard-case-of.html


Vivat Steve Tourloukis!

We live in a time when abnormal parents can meddle in their offpsrings' lives on supposed account of them being immature, well after them turning 18, but where normal parents cannot defend their children under their normal care against a school board.

Or a social service board - as back in 1983 when they decided against my mother homeschooling me in 9th grade with a correspondence course which was publically endorsed./HGL

Can One Wish Happy Birthday to People who Died?


Antoine Saint-Exupéry was born on this holy feast of Sts Peter and Paul, back in 1900.

RIP, if you still need it!

And I read a very lauding criticism of him on Pravoslavie:

Antoine de Saint-Exupery as a Christian
Archpriest Andrei Ovchinnikov
Translated by Dmitry Lapa 26 / 01 / 2017
http://www.pravoslavie.ru/english/100467.htm


Now, Antoine was in fact a Christian - like Tolkien was. But deducing this is as easy from Lord of the Rings in one case as from Little Prince in the other.

I may be oversensitive, coming from a Sweden where Astrid Lindgren finishes an otherwise brilliant story meditation over the last times with a double suicide, a death jump, not as the former death jump in order to save the brother's life, but on the contrary to save the other brother from a life in pain, and having in my teens had to overcome temptation to suicide at least once or twice*, but the death of the Little Prince seems suicidal (he allows a snake to bite him so he dies), while Tolkien very clearly admonishes against anything suicidal. Yet, Antoine gets praise as a Christian from this work, and Tolkien gets undeserved warnings from Yuri Maximov on same site.** Against which I defended him, back here:

Answering Yuri Maximov on Tolkien, on the Lord of the Rings
http://nov9blogg9.blogspot.com/2017/03/answering-yuri-maximov-on-tolkien-on.html


I think there is a common theme on what might be wrong with Russian Orthodox spirituality.

The next problem is that in general life of all Tolkien's creatures (elves, dwarves, humans, hobbits etc.) looks rather senseless. They struggle heroicly, it is described very vividly and breathtakingly but all of them dream of peaceful life, they struggle for it and die. In their struggle there is sense. But the peaceful life as their purpose looks extremely wan and senseless as an old faded picture stuck onto the wall. / Yuri

Christian life always presupposes our development. We should seek for something lighter and better all the time. / Andrei


Yes, God appreciates our struggle. Yes, the Christian life is warfare.

But no, taking a breath, or seeking a quiet life, these are not sins, at least not major ones. These are not senseless pursuits.

Ecclesiasticus 24 : [11] And by my power I have trodden under my feet the hearts of all the high and low: and in all these I sought rest, and I shall abide in the inheritance of the Lord.

If Wisdom herself has said "and in all these I sought rest", why would it be wrong for a man to seek rest, in ways that are not sinful?***

Russians seem not to be getting that!

Hans Georg Lundahl
Nanterre UL
Sts Peter and Paul
29.VI.2017

* I was greatly aided by C. S. Lewis' description of Hell.

** "The Lord of the Rings" and Christianity
Yuri Maximov 27 / 01 / 2003
http://www.pravoslavie.ru/english/7153.htm


*** A monk who has vowed to take a fight to be better every single day as a Christian is a somewhat other thing.

Is John Horvath Just about the Young?


Perpetual Adolescence: When Coming of Age Doesn’t Come
By John Horvat II
http://www.returntoorder.org/2017/06/15516/


"One in three of those between the ages of 18 and 34 live with their parents."


More "immature" young ones?

Or less ease in getting the jobs they were counting on?

Less ease in getting appartments or other housing?

Less ease in getting married than ever before?

Some 30 percent of all college students drop out after their first year. A recent test of college seniors found that one-third could not make cohesive arguments, think critically, or evaluate the quality of data.


More "immaturity" in college students?

Or more college students recruited from people who could have done better elsewhere?

If so, more "immaturity" in the choice?

Or more of default choices, "faute de mieux" as they say here?

Also, it might very well be those doing that test are asking about a more specific culture than ever before.

If you were tested for coherent argumentation 100 years ago, you would probably need to avoid undistributed middles and unbacked premisses. End of story. Today, a Christian or Muslim or Animist can be "failing" simply because he is not evaluating in terms of diamat.

OK, not quite all there is to it. At certain universities 100 years ago, a Catholic believing St. Botulf came to Iccanhoe and literally evicted demons from what then became the Boston of Yorkshire might have been considered inadequate in his evaluation of quality of data too at certain universities, not least Cambridge and Ivy League with their heavily Anti-Catholic leaning. But he would not have been failing a "test". He would have been told "sorry, we think you are a superstitious Papist if you believe that kind of stuff, we don't encourage you saying it from OUR platform". This is basically the reason why Hilaire Belloc quit University after five years (coincidentally the time I have exams for, even if they took me longer).

One hundred years ago, then, maturity was not per se considered testable in the kind of tests those students failed (I have not yet looked up the link).

And, above all, one hundred years ago, so many older people would not have used so much perfidy to stamp younger particulars (or younger people in general) as "immature" and therefore needing some more mentoring. With fewer young per old and more old per young, such perfidy is one way out of a perplexity, so many old having so much to give and so few young being able or willing to listen to them. This comes from contraception and abortion.

Even so, most of the older ones are encouraging abortion at least in certain cases and are also encouraging contraception. That is not as backhanded as a man of 34 actually living with his parents. That is about as backhanded as a man of 18 planning in advance to live with his parents to 34 in an apartment made for one generation of adults + their children. And hoping that after that he will have a good job and a house of his own at 35.

Even John Horvath II will presumably admit, most of the young men and women of 34 living with their parents did not plan to do so in advance, they just failed to do better. That poses the question whether they failed to do better due to an immaturity in themselves or due to outer circumstances they could not possibly have foreseen, including but not limited to a behaviour by older people unprecedented in the West in at least recent centuries - and I would say in centuries back to Nimrod and the Pharaos or even in centuries back to before the Flood.

Even I will agree that a man of 18 agreeing to stay with a parent or grandparents with the intention of doingb so up to 34 would be a very immature person. So immature I even suppose he is part of a new mythology : less well documented than Cyclopes (at least Ulysses claimed to have seen one at uncomfortably close range).

BUT we both know that older people at once counting on pensions staying a decent outcome for old persons and encouraging contraception up to abortion do indeed exist and are indeed in a majority in the West (look where votes are going!) We know they are no more mythological than Indians learning scalping from Indian Hunters. They are no more mytholical than the Muslim Pirates of Algeria whom the French were hanging in 1830 (probably the finest moment of French Algeria, up to the ones who were walking to relieve besiged comrades with food and basically martyred for this in the shooting of 26 March 1962, rue d'Isly).

This extreme unwiseness in so many old people poses the question how much of the young are really in situations like living with parents at 34 due to being unwise themselves, and how many are so due to being pushed out of situations where their wisdom could have counted.

At 14 I was in love with a girl for the first time. I had no idea one could even imagine what I think now, that it would be a good idea to bring back marital age minima to the millennial 14 / 12 limit of the Catholic Church up to 1917. I just thought, if I could only persuade her to love me too, we would get engaged, we would fight for a life together for the four following years, we would marry at 18, when I would have made good use of my talents (including as a writer, hadn't noticed Tolkien was about 50 when he published The Hobbit - that immaturity I did have at 14! - including as a composer - even before I was good at counterpoint, before I had read the music theory I know now), but also done some less inspiring stuff for the good cause. And I probably would have.

Older people, not including my mother, but certainly including both her parents and the school we were at were very much NOT inclined to let it get even as far as my talking to her. Or, she already had fallen for my rival, whichever it was. BUT, they probably (the following is my estimate, not my knowledge) preferred getting me away from her, just in case their story should finish and she should have a weak spot for me once that happened. Their story did finish, as he told me when we were going to enroll for military service. But I was not around, I had been given the choice between Bladins - a school for mentally handicapped in Malmö - or SSHL, a boarding school, near Stockholm, involving me in full day train rides each beginning or end of holiday.

I and my mother, neither of us could have foreseen how demoralising or how infantilising for me that school would be during the 4 years I was there. The "study rector" (someone subsidiary to the principal) of that school was an old fashioned and old man (back then!) with as I learned later Kantian or close enough ideas, he seemed decent. A good change from a school where I suppose the infiltration from East German Stasi indoctrination was high, it would seem. Only later did I know Greta Olsson was not the same kind of person as Folke Åkerblom. Widow of one freemason, lover of another (whom she married when the widow pension was abolished), a kindly person to chat with, but ultimately bent on driving me away from the faith. Instead she and my comrades and harrassers got me to convert to Catholicism. Her revenge (or so it would seem) was to tell my grandmother I simply could not live in a student corridor, I had to live with her, if it was at all possible. Which I did, socially ruining my first years at university, morally ruining my first year as practising Catholic.

THIS is the kind of situation you cannot simply consider someone as victim of his own immaturity for being a victim of.

Such older persons as my grandmother or as Greta Olsson are older persons God did not create young persons to be normally facing. Not to mention the ones at the earlier school.

Could the presence of such old people be one clue why some have chosen university studies they had NO aptitude for (something one has claimed about me, without cause!) and why some are still or once again living with parents at 34?

Indeed, I think the presence of such old people is a key to understanding the immaturity of "adolescence". Back 300 years ago, a 14 old year man could be doing a farm work important enough form him to afford marriage, if he was modest about his abode, or advancing from apprentice to journeyman (=employee), or preparing to go to University at 15 (as I mentioned in connection with Cardano, with some help from a certain "Boniface"). If you analyse my intentions as here stated back when I was fourteen, you might find that I might have done better than I did, if I had not been brought to such hard choices so soon, with so little room for real good. I would have been a young adult and was forced to be socially regarded as an awkward adolescent. OK, some awkwardness there would have been anyway, I presume, I was also a fatty up to the first Lenten fast when I converted.

If you came across Maurice Cling just after he had gone through Auschwitz, without being gassed, without seeing anyone being gassed, but not without hearing of such things, would not he have given you a great spectacle of ... immaturity? Especially perhaps ... passivity? Is that because his parents (Jewish businessmen, in cloth, father decorated for service in WW-I) or the Jewish boyscouts had given him no education? Is that because Auschwitz had given him no education? Or is it because Auschwitz had given him the WRONG education, because of his being a Jew? Well, beware lest you endorse giving anyone what is in fact the WRONG education, just because he is young or - in your view - "immature".

A young man that shows up on time for work one day might claim he is “adulting.” He is not assuming adult habits but merely temporarily leaving his perpetual adolescence.


A man of 24 back 500 or 700 years ago would not necessarily have been an employee. If he had been a good journeyman from age 14, he could fairly easily have been a master of his trade at 24 (easier 700 years ago, than 200 years later). Companies were smaller and more numerous. This means that more were self employed and even employing others, fewer were employed by others (unless, as said, between 14 and 24), in the town trades.

A person of 14 has the capacity to be mature if given a chance, and modern society is built on NOT giving him a real chance until 30. Or by now perhaps 40.

Your example is an example of "(im)mature employee" from the view point of a boss. But 700 years ago, most of these employees, whether "mature" or "perpetual adolescents" (meaning bosses are taking on a role of quasi parental judges of maturity!) would not have been employees at all. Supposing they had been serfs on a manor, in some ways the serfs on a manor had more freedom than employees have now. They were certainly able to support families quicker.

Not that I particularly uphold serfdom and manorial economy as an ideal. But I am not sure those upholding employment under bosses as the most normal ideal for an adult are in a position to criticise serfdom too much. Especially not if they are blocking persons from becoming their own, if they are blocking both a writer and composer (my ambitions at 14 are not totally unrealised) and the young in the parish who could have profited as paper-editors* or performing musicians.**

Hans Georg Lundahl
Nanterre UL
Sts Peter and Paul
29.VI.2017

* Paper-editors : i e as by contrast with my editing the primary and for free net publication of what I write. ** Yes, I have a particular parish in mind!

PS, for what it is worth as consolation, some of today's young may be better on this:



https://www.facebook.com/nwfencingacademy/videos/10154737911255954/

... than on this:



http://www.lettersofnote.com/2012/04/c-s-lewis-on-writing.html

I am not one of them./HGL

PPS, I looked at the source for one third not being able to think critically, construct a coherent argument, etc. It seems John Horvath is either a bit off on critical thinking himself or endorsing the secrecy of certain "pay only" informations for online reading.

His immediate source here on Glenn Beck's site gives no details about the test, just a speech held and supposed to presuppose it. This in turn links to an article in Wall Street Journal where the preview gives no details either and I would have to subscribe to read the rest./HGL

Tuesday, 27 June 2017

Why is Google Not Making My Blog Post Searchable?




Here is a link to the post:

New blog on the kid : Philadelphia!
http://nov9blogg9.blogspot.com/2017/01/philadelphia.html


Can YOU find it via google?/HGL

PS, the blog as such can be found:

Trump and Scalise


I heard a tirade by an US citizen on vacation in Paris about how Donald Trump could do nothing to end abortion.

Legislation being Congress, not President.

I had been somewhat confused on that issue, since in Sweden legislation used to be parted between King and Riksdag. As were declarations of wars. Taxation was Riksdag only, administration, including justice, King only. So, Trump cannot make a law to outlaw abortion.

But Scalise can vote such a law, I heard he was shot in the hip, and hope he is recovering or has recovered now.

I am glad, from this video, to know that Trump is at least also a personal friend of Scalise:

MOMENTS AFTER OTTO WARMBIER DIED, TRUMP SENT THIS BRUTAL MESSAGE TO NORTH KOREA
The Next News Network
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ik7LUQ-yAFE


Otto, if you are in Heaven you will know, his family, I can tell you my parents were drinking warm beer (etymology of your family name) in Warszaw within hours of probably making me.

I recommend you to take a Pilsner Urquell, heat it until it first foams, then ceases to foam, and serve when it starts foaming again. That is how I like warm beer, and next time I drink some, I'll toast to the memory of Otto.

I hope, unless I forget ...

Hans Georg Lundahl
Nanterre UL
St Crescens of Galatia*
27.VI.2017

* In Galatia sancti Crescentis, qui fuit beati Pauli Apostoli discipulus. Hic, in Gallias transitum faciens, verbo praedicationis multos ad fidem Christi convertit; regressus vero ad gentem cui specialiter datus erat Episcopus, demum, sub Trajano, cum Galatas ipsos usque ad finem vitae suae in opere Damini confirmasset, martyrium consummavit.

Saturday, 24 June 2017

Bonum festum Sancti Ioannis Baptistae


Christifidelibus lectoribus exopto./HGL


Nativitas sancti Joannis Baptistae, Praecursoris Domini, ac sanctorum Zachariae et Elisabeth filii, qui Spiritu Sancto repletus est adhuc in utero matris suae.

Romae commemoratio sanctorum plurimorum Martyrum, qui a Nerone Imperatore, ut a se incensae Urbis odium averteret, calumniose accusati, diverso mortis genere jussi sunt saevissime interfici. Horum siquidem alii, ferarum tergis contecti, laniatibus canum expositi sunt; alii crucibus affixi; aliique incendio traditi, ut, ubi defecisset dies, in usum nocturni luminis deservirent. Erant hi omnes Apostolorum discipuli, et primitiae Martyrum, quas Romana Ecclesia, fertilis ager Martyrum, ante Apostolorum necem transmisit ad Dominum. ...

Grey Pride - ça existe


Il y a des vieux pédés qui ont choppé le SIDA à une époque quand c'était encore davantage courant parmi les pédés que maintenant.

Et qui, étant justement vieux, ne sont pas très attractifs.

Pendant quelques années j'ai eu peur d'avoir choppé le SIDA moi-même. J'avais été accueilli par un vieux pédé. J'avais une mémoire de ne pas avoir protesté quand il me proposait de coucher dans le même lit, mais de l'avoir repoussé quand il approchait la main vers certaines régions. Et ensuite, le réveil, j'avais mal au cul. J'avais peur qu'il m'avait abusé pendant sommeil ou ivresse, et il me montrait le portrait d'un "ami" qui était mort, probablement en ... SIDA ... au moins à mon avis d'hypersensible "lisant entre les lignes" de ce qu'il disait. Et de peureux.

Avait-il le choppé aussi? L'avais-je moi-même? Des années plus tard je me vois obligé de cautériser un endroit où j'avais involontairement été en contact avec le seringue d'un drogué. Mais je le fais un peu trop tard, le lendemain. Bonne occasion de me faire dépister - et pour protéger le drogué j'évoque en des mots lacunaires l'histoire avec le vieux pédé devant les médecins. J'étais clean - après les deux risques.

Mais évoquons le sujet de Grey Pride. Le vieux là m'avait répéré quand j'étais en train de faire une pause quand j'avais 17 et étais à Strasbourg sur un tour intérrail. J'étais seul, fatigué, épuisé, je repoussais les premiers soupçons que le mec m'inspirait. Une hospitalité ça me parlait. Le soir allait être un peu plus monotone que j'avais espéré : un pédé qui essaie de séduire en parlant juste de sentiments, qui en plus ne respecte pas les sentiments hétérosexuels directement évoqués par moi, mais qui voulait tamponner ça comme une amourette, je ne savais pas ce qu'était le grand amour, en plus avide de me faire partager son deuil du copain perdu.

Non, parmi des hommes plus vieux que moi, comme causeurs, s'il y a eu du pire, il y a certainement eu du mieux aussi.

Celui-là était rélativement riche et pouvait se payer de prétexter l'hospitalité.

Il y a qui sont, comme dit, atteints de SIDA, vieux et encore pauvres. Et qui font quelque chose qui s'appelle Grey Pride, en marge de ce spectacle que je viens de soupçonner avait lieu mais dont je n'étais pas cette année averti par l'internet en avance, d'où ma non-évitation cette année.

Oui, il y a Grey Pride. Il y a des hommes qui choisissent un mode de vie qui détruira deux fois leur vieillesse, par le manque d'enfants et par la mauvaise santé d'un patient de SIDA. Et qui, arrivés à leur vieil âge détruit par ce choix, arrivent encore à en être fiers.

Étonnant, non?

Ce qui est moins étonnant est qu'il y a des jeunes qui ne réussissant pas leurs amours hétérosexuels, qui permettent qu'ils soient réduits en amourettes par une société qui n'aime pas que les jeunes s'épousent et échappent à des divers mentorats trop tôt, se laissent influencer dans le mauvais sens qui je viens de voir.

Et quelles belles gouines! Je les comprends. Comment peut-on être amoureux ou amoureuse d'un homme? Nous sommes si imparfaits ...

Et pourtant il y a des gens parmi nous hommes qui arrivent de trouver une femme amoureuse de lui. Peut-être parce que les femmes sont aussi pratiques et pas trop poussées sur l'intention de participer à un Grey Pride.

Heureusement.

Hans Georg Lundahl
Paris IV
Nativité de St. Jean Baptiste
24.VI.2017

Tuesday, 20 June 2017

Refaire le péché d'Adam n'est pas une brillante idée


Φιλολoγικά/Philologica : Comment savons-nous le Moyen Âge? · New blog on the kid : Refaire le péché d'Adam n'est pas une brillante idée · Φιλολoγικά/Philologica : Comment savons-nous l'histoire primordiale?

Ce matin, je parlais à un homme qui est de en dehors de la caste intellectuelle. Ce qui n'empêche nullement d'être intelligent, il l'était au moins sur un sujet. Plus son boulot de barista, faire que le café soit bien mais pas trop bien pressé en dessous du jet d'eau de la machine n'est pas à la portée d'absolument tous et chacun, j'en suis moi-même un peu handicapé (j'ai essayé).

L'évolutionnisme a quelque part une ambiance de "la connaissance" et d'y croire est donc en quelque manière de manger le fruit de la connaissance. Et Satan est quelque part présent pour souffler au moins à certains qu'ils seront comme des dieux.

Dans les Années Trente, la plupart des gens qui s'intéressaient pour l'Atlantide avaient une curiosité si par hazard ils descendent des dieux et pour certains même s'ils re-seront un jour des dieux. À Tolkien d'écrire à la suite un conte titré Akallabêth qui raconte l'Atlantide, à l'inverse, avec la moralité que c'est la diable qui souffle "vous serez comme des dieux" et il rigole de ceux qu'il trompe.

Si l'Atlantide est démodée, il y aura d'autres curiosités. L'évolutionnisme ne l'est pas encore, il est encore en mode; pourtant, comme l'avait constaté le bariste, il est faux.

Par tel ou tel volcan on peut déjà savoir que la méthode potassium argone ne fonctionne pas pour le présent, et pourquoi donc fonctionnerait-elle pour le passé? Néanmoins, il y en a à y croire, par exemple que les empreintes de pieds de Laetoli sont d'il y a un million d'années et demi. Et que donc l'humanité a fait un énorme progrès depuis, car lescrânes trouvés "de ce temps" à la région ressemblent à des singes. Et pour ce qu'il y a des vrais hommes datés par carbone 14 à il y a 40 000 ans, le seule chasse et cueillette pour des dizaines de milliers d'années, on imagine que peut-être l'homme a évolué lui-même aussi, qu'il n'a pas juste fait évoluer ses moyens de subsistence.

On a des gens qui s'imaginent vraiment comme des dieux en train de redéfinir le bien et le mal : quand le vrai Dieu a couplé le sexe et la procréation, eux, ils disent que le plaisir devrait être accessible sans les enfants ou qu'on pourra nier à des gens qui se font ce plaisir d'avoir d'enfants, même à un homme et à une femme mariés. Et aussi ils disent que ceci devrait être accessible pour ceux qui ne veulent pas bosser pour leurs enfants mais, aussi, pour ceux dont ils disent qu'ils ne devraient pas faire d'enfants.

Et inversement, pour d'autres, ils disent qu'ils ne devraient pas rester stériles involontairement. Ils proposent la conception par éprouvette, un embryon pour le couple, trois pour la mort, directement ou par la recherche - ce qui est une tuérie de trois hommes.

Et si les parents (normaux) ont déjà leurs enfants, ce n'est pas encore fini. Il y a les DDAS (en Norvège, Suède, Danemark et Finlande ils ont probablement un récord mondial d'enlèvements des parents : en Suède, il y a 14 ans, j'ai lu la statistique qu'un tiers des placements devaient être interrompus, à propos le cas d'une fille qui était de retour chez son père, le vrai, après d'avoir été aggressé sexuellement par son père d'accueil). Et l'école plus ou moins obligatoire. Et s'il y a quelqu'un que l'un ou l'autre ne fait pas évoluer, il y a la psychiatrie aussi.

Oui, il y a des gens qui semblent croire à ce fameux "vous serez comme des dieux" : ils se comporte de manière à signaler à d'autres qu'ils sont restés des simples mortels.

Souvent, je ne parle pas de ceci, je préfère fustiger les technicalités à propos la fausse connaissance. Moins les volcans et potassium - argone. Et davantage carbone 14 qui, en même temps qu'il ne donne pas une gamme correcte du temps écoulé, il en donne au moins une gamme corrigible selon la chronologie biblique, quand on tient compte d'un taux de carbone 14 qui monte.

"Il y a 40 000 ans" - ça pourrait être il y a 4974 ans, l'année du Déluge (2957 avant Jésus-Christ, selon St Jérôme).

En 4974 ans, on doit avoir en chaque échantillon 54,788 % du taux à l'origine. Si donc le taux qui reste est de par exmple 0,792 % du taux atmosphérique, on présume que ça aurait baissé de 100 % à 0,792 %, ce qui prendrait 40 000 ans. Si en réalité on a eu 4974 ans, on n'a perdu que 45,212 %, le taux d'origine doit être 1,445 ou 1,446 %.

Et si le taux vient de monter à 69 fois le taux d'origine, ceci n'est pas arrivée en une nuit, il y a eu une montée lente. Et encore pas trop lente, elle doit avoir fini avant le début de l'ère chrétienne et encore un peu en avant.

Mais, bien-sûr, si l'étude de cette montée, les diverses approches où je peux y aller (et je multiplie les tables sur mes blogs) est une étude assez intéressante, il ne convient pas d'oublier d'où vient et où mène l'idéologie que je fustige.

Je remercie l'homme de ce matin de m'avoir donné ce bon rappel. "Vous serez comme des dieux", dit quelqu'un quiveut que nous soyons au contraire des très pauvres diables, ce qu'il convient à éviter, pour cette vie et pour la vie éternelle.

Et l'antidote se trouve en bonne partie dans la Sainte Bible.

Hans Georg Lundahl
BU de Nanterre
Pape St. Silvère*
20.VI.2017

PS, je demande pardon pour le délai de quelques heures, je viens d'écrire aussi l'article avant et encore un sur le blog Assorted retorts, à savoir ... on Misrepresenting Origins of Catholic Church - les tables se trouvent sur ce blog ci après un début sur Datation de Carbone 14, comment ça carre avec la Chronologie Biblique et une table en théorie idéale en Avec un peu d'aide de Fibonacci ... j'ai une table, presque correcte - et ensuite, j'ai intégré d'autres facteurs, en anglais, sur un autre blog, Creation vs. Evolution, avec une assez bonne table à Interim II St Jerome A / St Jerome Fibonacci et avec un dernier article où j'essaie de faire la même chose avec la chronologie de Syncellus (Déluge en 3358 plutôt que 2957 avant Jésus-Christ), où je fais peut-être le début un peu mieux, mais où je me suis aussi planqué dans un petit paradoxe chronologique pour les patriarches - qui n'est pas là en St Jérôme, de toute manière : Continuing Interim III to Joseph in Egypt. PPS, le paradoxe était une simple erreur de subtraction, corrigée maintenant./HGL

* In insula Pontia natalis sancti Silverii, Papae et Martyris, qui, cum Anthimum, Episcopum haereticum, a suo praedecessore Agapito depositum, restituere noluisset, a Belisario, agente impia Theodora Augusta, in exsilium pulsus est, et ibidem, pro fide catholica multis aerumnis confectus, defecit.

Chrétiens en Inde


Q
Est-ce que les Français savent que les chrétiens en Inde sont opprimés par le gouvernement nationaliste hindou de Modi ?
https://fr.quora.com/Est-ce-que-les-Fran%C3%A7ais-savent-que-les-chr%C3%A9tiens-en-Inde-sont-opprim%C3%A9s-par-le-gouvernement-nationaliste-hindou-de-Modi/answer/Hans-Georg-Lundahl


Hans-Georg Lundahl
Bloggueur et débatteur d'internet. ENG/FR
A répondu lundi
Il me semble que non, les français ne le savent pas.

Avez-vous les détails?

Nikhil Roger
lundi
Je vis dans une région méridionale appelée Tamil Nadu, cette région est très instruit, plus libéral et plus riche que le nord parlant hindi. Donc, je ne sais pas combien il est mauvais, mais de ce que je vois, entendre et lire, il semble que les choses sont très mauvaises.

The Guardian : Christians in India increasingly under attack, study shows
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/jan/11/christians-in-india-increasingly-under-attack-study-shows


Hans-Georg Lundahl
Maintenant
Merci!

Friday, 16 June 2017

Je viens de signer la pétition : plus un centime pour le Planning Familial


Il m'est arrivé de ne pas signer tel ou tel truc, parce que même si le sujet me tient au c&oe;ur, il y a tel ou tel aspect qui n'est pas signable.

J'ai soigneusement vérifié que ceci n'est pas le cas, avant de signer celle-ci.

Pas un aspect éthique dedans qui est douteux, et quand à la phrase "Une pratique qui fait tous les ans 220 000 petites victimes dans notre pays, soit 70 000 de plus que le cancer," je viens juste de lire la statistique pour 2015 pour le cancer, il est de 150 000, soit 70 000 moins que l'avortement. Donc, je sais que je n'ai pas signé un faux, quand aux statistiques.

Donc, pas juste que je recommande la pétition, je viens de la signer moi-même, sans réserves, la voici:

http://petit.io/petition/droit-de-naitre/plus-un-centime-pour-le-planning

Malheureusement que sur la signature mon nom de famille n'apparaît pas, juste les quatre prénoms:



Ceci dit, c'est bien moi.

Hans Georg Lundahl
BU de Nanterre
Sts Aurée, évêque
et sa sœur Justine
16.VI.2017

You Call That "Child Marriage", Jane?


Child Marriage and Christians
June 13, 2017 by Jane the Actuary
www.patheos.com/blogs/janetheactuary/2017/06/child-marriage-christians.html


And is a married 16 year old mother any worse off than a unmarried one? After all, the difference between “our” teen brides and “their” teen brides is that in the US, marriage is a way of managing teen pregnancies and ensuring the father does his duty, but elsewhere, teen marriage is outright encouraged by society.

Which are all pretty lousy rationalizations.

Child support laws and social pressure within the community should be sufficient to push fathers to caring for their children. Marriage laws in which children can marry with parental permission affirm the cult’s belief and lead those girls to think that what’s happened to them is OK. And even if only a small number of children are affected, it’s still a law that should be removed from the books.


Did I hear you right? I just heard you call a sixteen year old girl who is pregnant a "child"?

Just checking your religious affiliation a bit ...

"Home Catholic Channel Jane the Actuary"?

And a bit earlier a post called "How Does a Pope Greet a President?" (not linking) with the clear non-Pope Bergoglio in picture, so you are probably a Novus Ordo Catholic.

And very out of touch with the history of your Church, or the Church it pretends to continue.

There was a case in Poland in the 18th C. where a real Pope was concerned with a real child marriage.

  • the bride was not 12 yet, which is the legal minimal age for brides in the Catholic Church;
  • if I recall correctly, she was not yet even 11 and a half;
  • and even at 11 and a half, you need Papal dispensation for marrying so low, if you are a girl (at 13 and a half for boys);
  • AND the bridegroom or not validly such, was a Protestant, which totally makes a Papal dispensation impossible anyway.


I am sorry, I forgot the reference.

For the normal minimal age (without special dispensations) being 14 for the male and 12 for the female partner, I can however give a reference or two:

"Home > Summa Theologiae > Supplement > Question 58"
Article 5. Whether defective age is an impediment to marriage?
http://newadvent.com/summa/5058.htm#article5


And giving you the corpus of this article:

I answer that, Since marriage is effected by way of a contract, it comes under the ordinance of positive law like other contracts. Consequently according to law (cap. Tua, De sponsal. impub.) it is determined that marriage may not be contracted before the age of discretion when each party is capable of sufficient deliberation about marriage, and of mutual fulfilment of the marriage debt, and that marriages otherwise contracted are void. Now for the most part this age is the fourteenth year in males and the twelfth year in women: but since the ordinances of positive law are consequent upon what happens in the majority of cases, if anyone reach the required perfection before the aforesaid age, so that nature and reason are sufficiently developed to supply the lack of age, the marriage is not annulled. Wherefore if the parties who marry before the age of puberty have marital intercourse before the aforesaid age, their marriage is none the less perpetually indissoluble.


In other words, St Thomas Aquinas as firmly as FLDS believed a girl of 12 was a woman fit to marry, unless puberty was delayed a bit after that. Where he disagrees (see elsewhere) is on bigamy.

"Yeah, but that is just one opinion" ... no, just like St Thomas Aquinas is so often elsewhere simply defending the Bible, the most read Church Fathers or a dogma like those of Nicaea or Constantinople, or like the Transsubstantiation recently defined in IV Lateran Council, here he is simply defending the normal canon law of the Church.

He does that too, quite a lot. He's the intellectual who defends the non-controversial opinion against those taking controversial ones.

"But surely that didn't happen in practise?"

I just mentioned Poland. Someone tried to push it downward a bit. Not much, the Polish szlachta are not Muslims, just down to eleven and some. An age in which marriage is legal in Tibet under the Dalai Lama (apart from the fact his country is occupied by China men). And the Pope said, "no, no, she must wait to twelve, and she can only marry a Catholic even then!" Not a Protestant, like the guy who had wanted to marry her when she was less than twelve.

I just read an article on French wikipedia, that other week, saying "in the Ancien Régime only 4 % of the women married before 17" - maybe so, but Marie Antoinette who had no problems scraping together a first home, was among the 4 %. She was 14.

In German wiki, I went through two family genealogies, going back in the case of Maria von Baden, and if I recall correctly, going forth a bit in the case of Philippa of Hainault. Citing myself:

Median 20
Untere Quartile 19
Höhere Quartile 21 / 23
Mittelwert 20.79 oder 20.75


One girl of 15, 3 of 17, one of 18 and three of 19 at 6 and 7th position, 20 at positions 12 / 13, positions 18 and 19 divided between 21 and 23 and one old maid married at 30. One of those married at 17 could have been just 16. This was Maria von Baden, but now lets look at Philippa of Hainault's kin:

Median 17 Jahre
Untere Quartile 12 oder 13 Jahre
Obere Quartile 19 Jahre


Note that of the 26 I looked at, 2 to 5 were under 12 when married. Depending on incertainties, similar to those involved in number of married under 12, the position 7 of 26, or lower quartile, is either at 12 (second to last among 12) or at 13 (first at 13). 8 or 9 of the 26 were 13 or younger when married first time.

Yes, it did happen.

"Oh, that was the Middle Ages ..."

Sure. And I thought you were a Catholic, i. e. proud of the Middle Ages?

But perhaps, among Novus Ordo Catholics, you have seeped in a Protestant pride in getting "past the Dark Ages" a bit in reverse, so you are ashamed of Middle Ages?

Jane, if you would like to be considered anything like a Catholic by me, you can do better than that!

Until 1917, canon law had basically considered anyone above the age of 12 capable of marriage. Thus, when the 1917 Code raised the minimum age for marriage in the church to 14 for girls and 16 for boys (1917 CIC 1067), the change was greeted as an improvement that recognized that something beyond mere reproductive ability was required for Christian marriage.


Too Young to Marry
CanonLaw.info
Dr. Edward Peters
http://www.canonlaw.info/a_tooyoung.htm


And here comes a little reasoning, it is on your side:

The idea of children hardly into their adolescent years being allowed to marry is a little embarrassing, and canonists queried on the topic usually reply that very few 14-year-olds get married anymore. Canon law, we add, was meant to apply in a wide variety of cultures, including those in which 14-year-olds marry happily (just where that land is we leave to anthropologists to determine), and in any case, we note, boys cannot marry until they are 16. Obviously, not all questioners are satisfied with these replies.


I actually read an anthropologist who was writing in 1910, just before the 1917 code of canon law. In Spain back then, marital law was at the same 14 / 12 limit as prescribed by St Thomas. Austria - the author mentioned nothing about when boys could marry, unless same provisions were there for both - the minimal age for girls was 14 (as in canon 1067 of 1917 canon law) with parental consent, or 21 without such. Italy, however, as a progressive country, had introduced the 18/18 limit. Before Soviet Russia followed suit, in the 1917 Revolution or the years after. One can argue that the raising of marital age in 1917 canon law was due to undue Italian pressure on the Papacy, and while Pope St Pius X had resisted, Benedict XV didn't. It also involves more acceptance than previously of usury (counselled to Benedict XV by a canon lawyer Pacelli, later known as Pius XII).

In Italy of 1902, the state prescribed the 18/18 limit, which meant that if one Maria Goretti and one Alessandro Serenelli had decided to marry, they would have had to wait for 6 years, since he was 18 but she not quite 12. Probably there was some dispensation for those who had gotten a pregnancy going before 18 and that is what Alessandro Serenelli was proposing and the saint refusing because it was a mortal sin.

If Nettuno had not been under the progressive rule of Sardinian house, if Nettuno had in 1870 remained Papal States, instead of that State going down, the marital age would have been 12 for women, Alessandro Serenelli would have been more sheltered from bad books, and less impetuous, and he would probably have made a proposal which they could have made serious business of in Church a few months later.

Under the novelty of 1917, they would still have had to wait for two years. But that is at least better than six. In case you don't know what the 18/18 limit and Alessandro Serenelli's reading of bad books and his impetuousness caused as a drama, I hope you pay attention to Saint of the Day on upcoming July 6th.

Hans Georg Lundahl
from Nanterre University Library
Saints Auraeus, bishop, and his
sister Justina, Martyrs
16.VI.2017